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Old 07-25-2005, 12:32 PM   #16
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OFF-TOPIC: Kobayashi, is your sig a Tragically Hip reference?
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Old 07-25-2005, 01:05 PM   #17
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lets not anoint fleury as golden just yet. he has been a little shaky so far.
Aye, he has...showing flashes of brilliance but wildly unpredictable. Still, I'm excited to see what happens with him in the next few years.

Why do people put so much pressure on these very young goalies? They come with unreasonably high expectations, when I suspect many hockey fans would agree that goalies tend to peak later than skaters. How on Earth can we expect Fleury, or any goalie that young regardless of how talented, to carry a team just as young and green as he himself is?

That said, I do think it'll be a good year to be a Pens fan.
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Old 07-25-2005, 01:29 PM   #18
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Why do people put so much pressure on these very young goalies?
I think that expectation dates back to the days of Ken Dryden, when he was forced into the job of number one for the Canadiens during the playoffs. Dryden ended up winning the Conn Smythe (Playoff MVP, for those less familiar) trophy before he qualified as a rookie in the NHL. Patrick Roy experienced similar success at the beginning of his career, and Ed Belfour and a few subsequent 'tenders have captured the Calder trophy for their standout rookie seasons. Since then, young goalies have been held to high standards (especially French Canadian netminders), and with the high media exposure that coincides with the World Junior Championships... prospects are scrutinized on a national level at a very early age.

Developmentally (in my opinion), it seems that the position of defense takes the longest to acquire consistency, and often folks allow maturity to happen with these players. Expectation becomes more of a long-term statistic, and immediate results are emphasized less. The same attitude should be adopted for all players... but the strive for perfection is an internal pressure as well. For some it works, while others fade in the afterglow of success (Giguere).

Fleury will probably take another few years to find his consistency, but in the mean time he will be fun to watch.
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Old 07-25-2005, 01:31 PM   #19
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Old 07-26-2005, 06:52 AM   #20
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Fleury will never be a Brodeur Marty is on pace to break the shutout record. Marty....Devils...whee!
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Old 07-26-2005, 08:29 AM   #21
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Fleury will never be a Brodeur Marty is on pace to break the shutout record.
Also of note... his record of extra-marital affairs!



I foresee an ugly season for Brodeur. With a few of the Devils' notable defensemen on the budget chopping block, the introduction of rules to limit goaltender mobility, and the scaling down of equipment, this year will be quite a departure from the Brodeur status quo.

If the shutout record is to be broken, it will be primarily a product of New Jersey's system. Of course, that's a simple statement to make seeing as team commitment and support is the foundation for all of the great goaltenders, but in Brodeur's case it seems he has been afforded a disproportionate amount in comparison to his peers. I guess I will always reserve doubts about Martin's accolades because of my own personal bias and the fact that his defensemen have been voted by both fans and critics as First Team All-Stars nearly every year. Although, some might argue that Niedermayer, Stevens, Rafalski, and others would not receive credit without the stellar backstopping of everyone's favourite adulterer/goaltender. It's a cyclical argument.

The one praise I will place upon Brodeur is that he plays the patience and stamina game better than anyone. It is a difficult style of netminding to face very few scoring chances and to maintain focus for a regulation game (nevermind additional periods). In that regard, a 40 save night for Roberto Luongo may be as difficult as a 9 save night for Martin Brodeur (I'm looking at you Maple Leafs of '99).

Fleury has the potential to be better. I am happy to see that he is with a team not known for its defensive prowess... allowing Marc-Andre to develop his skills under constant barrage.
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Old 07-26-2005, 08:35 AM   #22
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Originally posted by cujo


Also of note... his record of extra-marital affairs!



I foresee an ugly season for Brodeur. With a few of the Devils' notable defensemen on the budget chopping block, the introduction of rules to limit goaltender mobility, and the scaling down of equipment, this year will be quite a departure from the Brodeur status quo.

If the shutout record is to be broken, it will be primarily a product of New Jersey's system. Of course, that's a simple statement to make seeing as team commitment and support is the foundation for all of the great goaltenders, but in Brodeur's case it seems he has been afforded a disproportionate amount in comparison to his peers. I guess I will always reserve doubts about Martin's accolades because of my own personal bias and the fact that his defensemen have been voted by both fans and critics as First Team All-Stars nearly every year. Although, some might argue that Niedermayer, Stevens, Rafalski, and others would not receive credit without the stellar backstopping of everyone's favourite adulterer/goaltender. It's a cyclical argument.

The one praise I will place upon Brodeur is that he plays the patience and stamina game better than anyone. It is a difficult style of netminding to face very few scoring chances and to maintain focus for a regulation game (nevermind additional periods). In that regard, a 40 save night for Roberto Luongo may be as difficult as a 9 save night for Martin Brodeur (I'm looking at you Maple Leafs of '99).

Fleury has the potential to be better. I am happy to see that he is with a team not known for its defensive prowess... allowing Marc-Andre to develop his skills under constant barrage.
Very well said Cujo. I actually do agree with you on the fact that Marty's stats are probably heightened by the fact of the great defensemen that he has in front of him. I also agree that the defensemen's greatness are heightened by the goaltender behind them. Frankly, I think they work off of each other and Marty and D-men just continue to push each other furthur into the 'All-Star' spectrum. Though, as a Devils fan, I have always wondered of the true ability of Marty's playing, and if he was placed on a team with poor defense, how he would stack up as a netminder.

Very nice post you had indeed. It looked at both ends of the spectrums, and not too many sports fans do that. Usually it's "My team rules! Your team sucks!". You brought up a great point about Fleury that being behind a poor defense will really test him and make him into either a great goaltender, or someone who was just talked up to be one. In any event, it will be fun to watch the Penguins this year.
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Old 07-26-2005, 12:00 PM   #23
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OFF-TOPIC: Kobayashi, is your sig a Tragically Hip reference?
it certainly is DaveC.
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Old 07-26-2005, 12:03 PM   #24
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I am happy to see that he is with a team not known for its defensive prowess


How very tactful.

Around here we just say, "When the fuck is the defense going to wake up?"
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Old 07-26-2005, 09:32 PM   #25
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NICE.

Fortunately, the Penguins' defense corps has one of the best names in hockey:

Dick Tarnstrom.

Mantastic to the ears, no?

Aside from that, the Pens defense is without a doubt... OFFENSIVE.

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Old 07-27-2005, 07:13 AM   #26
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Ah, yes, Dick Tarnstrom.

He does have a fun name.
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