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Old 10-21-2004, 08:16 AM   #1
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Paul Hamm keeps gold medal

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I know tensions can run high in international competition, but this really was a bit much. As a Korean-American, I think I can say that South Korea goes overboard in using sports as a proxy for international relations.
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Old 10-21-2004, 08:17 AM   #2
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You know when they interview Hamm, if I close my eyes, I'd swear its James Earl Jones speaking.
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Old 10-21-2004, 08:22 AM   #3
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mistakes by umpires/refs/judges are part of sports. also, anyone involved in sports knows that the ref never costs you the game/match etc. on his own. it's easy for a basketball coach to blame the ref for making a questionable call in the final seconds. it's not so easy to look at the 20 turnovers durring the game or the poor practice organization leading up to the game, all of which had an equal or greater influence on the ultimate outcome of the game.

once the competition is over, it's over. changing outcomes in court is just stupid.
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Old 10-21-2004, 08:23 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hewson
You know when they interview Hamm, if I close my eyes, I'd swear its James Earl Jones speaking.
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Old 10-21-2004, 01:04 PM   #5
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Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase
mistakes by umpires/refs/judges are part of sports. also, anyone involved in sports knows that the ref never costs you the game/match etc. on his own. it's easy for a basketball coach to blame the ref for making a questionable call in the final seconds. it's not so easy to look at the 20 turnovers durring the game or the poor practice organization leading up to the game, all of which had an equal or greater influence on the ultimate outcome of the game.
While it's true a combination of events contribute to a loss, I have seen basketball and football games where the entire momentum and outcome was swayed and changed by a series of bad calls.

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once the competition is over, it's over. changing outcomes in court is just stupid.
Exactly, I have seen so many bad calls in games and sports but nobody ever goes back and changes it after the final is in.
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Old 10-21-2004, 01:18 PM   #6
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I'm sorry but Pam Hamm is a whiny little skirt.

He should have given up his medal, or at least shared it with the South Korean. That would have been the more "mature" and heroic thing to do. Instead Miss Hamm acted like a little bit*ch and told the world that the medal was "mine mine mine no no no I won it! I'm the champion. It's MINE!!"

What a disgrace.

He didn't win. Gymnastics is a "point" system competition. That's like giving the Red Sox only 7 innings and the Yankees nine. It's wrong, even if it was a mistake. It happened and dame Hamm should have stepped up to the plate and done the right thing and shared that gold medal.

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Old 10-21-2004, 01:47 PM   #7
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Problem is, you can't just tack on 0.1 point to Yang's score at the very end and declare him the winner.

Suppose the judges got his score right, and he's got a bigger lead on Hamm going into the next rotation. You can't recreate the competition that would have ensued. Does he maintain his performance? Does he get complacent with a bigger lead and slip up? Does Hamm become a bit more aggressive in his next routine? And so forth. That's why the rules stipulate that scoring disputes must be lodged before the next rotation starts.
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Old 10-21-2004, 02:11 PM   #8
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That's why the rules stipulate that scoring disputes must be lodged before the next rotation starts.

Well said.
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Old 10-21-2004, 02:24 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by speedracer
Problem is, you can't just tack on 0.1 point to Yang's score at the very end and declare him the winner.

Suppose the judges got his score right, and he's got a bigger lead on Hamm going into the next rotation. You can't recreate the competition that would have ensued. Does he maintain his performance? Does he get complacent with a bigger lead and slip up? Does Hamm become a bit more aggressive in his next routine? And so forth. That's why the rules stipulate that scoring disputes must be lodged before the next rotation starts.
It doesn't matter. I'm just saying Hamm "should" have done the right thing and shared his medal. I realize the "rules" say he won, but don't you think it would have made him the better "competitor" to have shared? It wasn't his fault they messed up, nor was it the South Korean's fault they messed up. Best thing to do, share the medal.

Think about it, he's gonna go down in history as the guy who complained about his precious medal, a medal that he didn't "really" all out win, rather than being the guy who stepped up and shared the medal, much like the 2002 Winter Games where the Canadian skaters tied with the Russian skaters because of the faulty judge. The Canadians shared the medal, rtaher than turning the "selfish" cheek.
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Old 10-22-2004, 12:28 AM   #10
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Originally posted by tackleberry


It doesn't matter. I'm just saying Hamm "should" have done the right thing and shared his medal


This wasn't an option Hamm had, Tackle.. The IOC could have awarded a second gold at the outset, but declined. They wimped out and put all the weight on Hamm, hoping he'd give it up.


Think about it, he's gonna go down in history as the guy who complained about his precious medal, a medal that he didn't "really" all out win, rather than being the guy who stepped up and shared the medal, much like the 2002 Winter Games where the Canadian skaters tied with the Russian skaters because of the faulty judge. The Canadians shared the medal, rtaher than turning the "selfish" cheek.

You seem to have your facts messed up on this one. First, it was the the Russians who initially were awarded the gold in 2002, not the Canadians. After the French judge was exposed as a fraud, the IOC awarded a second gold to the Canadians. The Russian pair had nothing to do with it. And in fact, acted more coldly about sharing the gold than Hamm has been at any time since Athens.

Per Speedracer's post, if they were to add 0.1 to the Korean's score now, they would be breaking one rule to mend another.

In either incident, it was not the athlete's choice on whether or not to "share" anything. It's a decision left to the sport's governing body.
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Old 10-22-2004, 11:55 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by tackleberry
He should have given up his medal, or at least shared it with the South Korean. That would have been the more "mature" and heroic thing to do. Instead Miss Hamm acted like a little bit*ch and told the world that the medal was "mine mine mine no no no I won it! I'm the champion. It's MINE!!"

What a disgrace.

He didn't win. Gymnastics is a "point" system competition. That's like giving the Red Sox only 7 innings and the Yankees nine. It's wrong, even if it was a mistake. It happened and dame Hamm should have stepped up to the plate and done the right thing and shared that gold medal.

Nope, if he had to give it up then every athlete or team who ever benefitted from a bad call should have to give theirs up too and that's not going to happen, so why should it just this once? The Korean is the whiney twit, but he should have complained sooner. It's like in the NFL if you don't challenge the play before the next one starts, oh well, too bad. As an NFL fan I have had teams lose championship games due to blatant mistakes. In the 1994 Winter Olympics, it was later shown on video that Oksana 2 footed 2 landings which would not only have put her below Nancy Kerrigan but out of the medals entirely. Mistakes in judging and officiating has a long and sad history, and I don't see why this one guy should have gotten special treatment. The case of the Russian skaters was different because bribery and intentional cheating was proven. Besides, the Korean also made a mistake that was not seen by the judges, so if all was fair, you should take off for that and guess what, he'd have gotten no medal at all.
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Old 10-22-2004, 04:33 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hewson
You know when they interview Hamm, if I close my eyes, I'd swear its James Earl Jones speaking.
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