Fair enough that you disagree with me but I'm not sure I'm the one with the blinkers on.
Thanks for taking the effort to repond it's fun to do this sort of thing once in a while.
I wasn't arguing that Upson is of Campbell, Terry or Ferdinand quality but the point is that he is much better than anything you've got at the moment or are likely to acquire in the future. He's in the bracket below but there's only a dozen or so Centre backs in the World of that calibre in the bracket above and I can't think of any club (Chelsea included) who have two centre backs at that level. Toure the jury remains out on it's much easier to play well when the whole team is playing well it's much more difficult when the team's going through a rough spell. Toure like Cygan has to rely on Campbell to clear up a lot of his mistakes.
If Arsenal have a substantial network of scouts in this country I'd be asking for my money back.
Sidwell we'll leave, apart from to say that Wenger begged him to stay because he knew he was good enough but allowed him to go because the player was very keen to get first team experience and was sensible enough to realise he wasn't going to get it at Arsenal. He was also the Championship's outstanding player before Christmas.
The comment about the Championship I think is a touch unfair and I would argue the football is of a higher quality than the top divisions in some of the countries Arsenal recruit their young players. The fact that the former-Championship clubs occupy the relegations places doesn't mean that Rouledge and Johnson haven't been two of the Premierships best performers this season. It also wasn't the case that three out of three went down last season.
The comment about the Brazilians is incredibly unfair and rather patronising I would say but let's leave that one.
You seem to have an obsession that everyone who plays for Arsenal is genuinely World Class, that is far from the case. So Arsenal haven't let go any World Class players. a footballer doesn't have to make you gasp to be a very effective and vital part of the team regardless of how successful you are.
Your argument does seem to smack of taking your ball home England only has a handful of World Class players Arsenal, Man United, Chelsea and Real Madrid each have two of them and Liverpool has one of them. You are not going to get all of them in the same team but you seem to be saying that if an England player isn't a World Class superstar he isn't good enough to play for Arsenal.
Come on. Man United have the two Neville brothers, Brown and Smith in addition to the World Class players, Chelsea have Bridge and Johnson, Liverpool have Carragher and Kirkland and even Real Madrid have Woodgate. Correct me if I'm wrong and I'm sure you will but Arsenal have no English players beyond the superstars, what makes them so special?
No one is arguing about the statistics of your Under 18 team (even if these seem a little scary) but mainly it's what happens between there and the full side. Wenger has had quite a bit of time at the club and I think blaming Graham and Rioch this far on is a bit desperate. As I said in my last post as far as young English players go they just about get their pick of who they want, either they're not taking their pick or they're not developing it well enough.
Chelsea is a false economy on player fees, they get screwed but Crespo was regarded as one of the best forwards in the World at the time and when fit Drogba has been superb. As for Wiltord it would have been an interesting decision if Wenger decided to buy a £13 million midfielder when they needed a striker. He is listed on
www.soccerbase.com as a Forward.
I don't claim to be an observer of Spanish football but as for Reyes he is playing like Viera at the moment, like his head is somewhere else. He also failed to make the squad for the European Championships if I'm not mistaken. The value for money issue, if you were to sell him tomorrow would you get what you paid for him? No chance, even at £11 million. He should also be getting better not worse. Robben has eight goals from fewer starts in a season genuinely disrupted by injury in a defensive minded team.
Smith is no slouch and no reason to believe he wouldn't fit in at Arsenal he has two good feet and those that partner Henry up front for Arsenal are hardly prolific goal scorers. This also reveals one of Arsenal's big problems at the moment - there is no Plan B or variation in tactics.
£11 million for Wright-Phillips is about right. Manchester City cannot afford to turn down a bid of this level despite what they say in public as they have absolutely no money and are in an almost Leeds type situation.
We can agree to disagree on Mills and Murphy but I would urge you to cast your mind back to the last World Cup.
Players give awards to the players at big clubs and are in no way a guide as their judgement isn't always the best. As we have seen with Henry's snubbing at the World Player Awards(yes I know managers also get a vote but you see the point). This year Frank Lampard will almost certainly get the PFA award when there is no way it shouldn't be John Terry.
Ask the supporters of any club apart from Arsenal and what they think of their Fair-Play. They get away with loads becasue their players spend ninety minutes following around the referee. Viera is one of dirtiest players ever to have played in the Premiership and commits more cynical fouls than anyone I think I have ever seen. His disciplinary record speaks for itself. Football chants tend to hurt when there's some truth in them and just about every club in the land is happy to sing "Same old Arsenal always cheating."
No one else tried to sign Owen and although Liverpool weren't keen on him going to another English club they weren't in a position to negotiate. I can't remeber the statements exactly but I believe he had sent hints out to Arsenal long before the Madrid move.
Viera is one player. He wasn't free either. Fabregas: if you think he controlled the game against Chelsea, no offense but I think you need help. Arsenal were played off the park and but for some seriously bent refereeing Chelsea would have run out comfortable winners. Where and when was he found out:- 28th November 2004 at Anfield. I went to that game and Alonso made him look so ordinary and out of his depth it wasn't funny, to the extent that it inhibited Veira's game. I appreciate that he is seventeen, we'll see and I hope I'm wrong but he really doesn't look World Class at the moment.
Wenger has stalled on his contract in the past waiting for a better offer that never arrived. You are right this is just opinion but I thought that was the point of a message board but still. The reason I think Wenger will go is because he has been papering over cracks at Arsenal for too long. Arsenal's best player will have to retire at some point even if he does play on next year and then given the way Veira is playing at the moment Arsenal are an incredibly ordinary team who have Henry and Cole. A poor Goalkeeper, two great defenders, an ageing midfield and maybe or maybe not Reyes up front. To sustain the investment on that new Stadium will take enormous success and I don't think those players will have it in them. It will be a third place finish this year and who knows where from there.
The major point has been avoided which is that Arsenal are contributing very little to our national game and should be making more effort to both develop and buy English players.
