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Old 01-21-2008, 04:29 PM   #586
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Never said QB's were irreplacable, and RB's certainly can be....but if you've talked yourself into thinking that QB's are not more important than most other positions on a football team then you're very very mistaken. The Ravens of the world are mostly anomalies. I'm really surprised to see such a silly post from you.
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Old 01-21-2008, 04:33 PM   #587
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Originally posted by No spoken words
Never said QB's were irreplacable, and RB's certainly can be....but if you've talked yourself into thinking that QB's are not more important than most other positions on a football team then you're very very mistaken. The Ravens of the world are mostly anomalies. I'm really surprised to see such a silly post from you.
I don't understand your post. Are you saying that they're more important or equally important than any other position? Because I simply can't agree that QB is the most important part of an offense by far like so many believe. There have been too many instances of terrible QBs running good offenses for me to buy that.

I don't care how brilliant a QB is; even Peyton Manning would have sucked on a team like the Rams this year that had no offensive line. Tom Brady has arguably the best offensive line in football.
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Old 01-21-2008, 04:39 PM   #588
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You'll be able to name individual seasons where a mediocre QB lead an offense to success, but you'll not be able to name poor QB's that lead teams to prolonged success. It does not happen.

This year's Steeler team had a poor offensive line. Very poor. Roethlisberger had to run for his life almost every game. Good run blocking line, bad pass protection. Guess what? They won their division. Put Rex Grossman behind that Steeler line and they go 6-10. Steelers were 6-10 they year they drafted Ben...same roster goes 15-1 the next season. That's not an accident.

Go find anyone involved with the game, at any level, and ask them if your theory is true. If you can get one to agree, I'd be shocked.
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Old 01-21-2008, 04:42 PM   #589
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QB is the most important single position on a football team, and it's not close.

Now if you want to compare the value of a QB versus a 5-man offensive line, that might be close.
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Old 01-21-2008, 04:47 PM   #590
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Originally posted by LemonMelon
Most important positions are the lines. Every time.
While the rest of your post is debatable, I agree wholeheartedly with this.

You can have Tom Brady, LT, Randy Moss, Plaxico Burress, and Terrell Owens lined up for your offense, but if your O-line sucks, they still won't win.
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Old 01-21-2008, 04:48 PM   #591
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I also agree that teams rarely sustain success without a good offensive line, collectively. D-line, you can win with just a decent one if the rest of your D is sound.

However, as I said, the Steelers had a good year with a poor O-line. Could they keep that success up with such poor pass protection? No.
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Old 01-21-2008, 04:52 PM   #592
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Quote:
Originally posted by No spoken words

This year's Steeler team had a poor offensive line. Very poor. Roethlisberger had to run for his life almost every game. Good run blocking line, bad pass protection. Guess what? They won their division. Put Rex Grossman behind that Steeler line and they go 6-10. Steelers were 6-10 they year they drafted Ben...same roster goes 15-1 the next season. That's not an accident.
Kind of a no-brainer there, don't you think? Steelers won their division due to a strong running game and an excellent defense. Had nothing to do with Roethlisberger. He limited the mistakes, managed the games, and they won. Rex Grossman would have screwed everything up by being sacked repeatedly and throwing a ton of INTs. That's the difference between a great QB and a terrible one. But what if the Steelers had no running game? The whole season would have been absolutely worthless, regardless of who was behind center.

All I'm saying is that, while QB is a hugely important position and often separates the great offenses from the passable, the QB doesn't deserve all the credit for the success of an offense, and especially not the success of the team as a whole, which happens WAY too often these days. Again, I really don't think even the elite QBs would be where they are today without good pass protection.
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Old 01-21-2008, 04:53 PM   #593
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Kind of a no-brainer there, don't you think? Steelers won their division due to a strong running game and an excellent defense. Had nothing to do with Roethlisberger. He limited the mistakes, managed the games, and they won.
Actually, this is also not true. I'm a Steeler fan, so, I watch every single game of theirs. Their success had a lot to do with Roethlisberger. You're starting to make stuff up.

Ben threw for over 3,500 yards and had 23 TD passes. He had the best year of his career. Trust me, he was a HUGE part of their success.

I hear you, other aspects of team's offense deserve credit, and no QB can enjoy a great career without a good line, that does not change the fact that QB is the most important single position on the field.
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Old 01-21-2008, 04:55 PM   #594
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Actually, this is also not true. I'm a Steeler fan, so, I watch every single game of theirs. Their success had a lot to do with Roethlisberger. You're starting to make stuff up.
I never said Roethlisberger had a terrible year or anything, but the Steelers had a really good rushing game as well. Again, Big Ben is also an anomaly; how many QBs can do that with zero pass protection, really?
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Old 01-21-2008, 04:56 PM   #595
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Wow, busy afternoon and four pages worth of discussion going on here.

I'll add that the QB position is the most important single position on the field. Yes, the O-Line is also very important, but sometimes when you have a great QB, they can make that line look very good at times, especially if you have someone like Brady with a quick release. I can't tell you how many times he was responsible himself for getting plays off with the O-Line not doing its job.
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Old 01-21-2008, 04:58 PM   #596
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Quote:
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I never said Roethlisberger had a terrible year or anything, but the Steelers had a really good rushing game as well.
True.
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Old 01-21-2008, 05:01 PM   #597
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Quote:
Originally posted by phanan
Wow, busy afternoon and four pages worth of discussion going on here.

I'll add that the QB position is the most important single position on the field. Yes, the O-Line is also very important, but sometimes when you have a great QB, they can make that line look very good at times, especially if you have someone like Brady with a quick release. I can't tell you how many times he was responsible himself for getting plays off with the O-Line not doing its job.
I watched 90% of the Pats' games this year, and he did have great protection the vast majority of the time, but on top of that, you're right, he's fantastic at improvising when plays go awry.
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Old 01-21-2008, 05:01 PM   #598
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Who is the last DOMINANT running back that LED his team to the super BOWL win?

Terrell DAVIS?
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Old 01-21-2008, 05:07 PM   #599
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Corey Dillon was pretty dominant for the Patriots in 2004, although when you say led, I guess that won't apply when Brady is the quarterback.

In 2000, Jamal Lewis was pretty much the offense for Baltimore, although the defense led that team.
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Old 01-21-2008, 05:15 PM   #600
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BTW, forgot to point this out...

Quote:
Originally posted by No spoken words
Knowing what I know now, CTU2 fan, I'd NEVER draft Palmer ahead of Eli. Eli's stood up to a maelstrom of scrutiny and name calling, and has basically been above it all.
Dude. No. Is a QB's ability to withstand name-calling more important than their ability to get a higher QB rating than 75?
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