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Old 05-05-2005, 09:13 PM   #46
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But the Bulls didn't miss crucial FT after crucial FT in the FINAL MINUTE of play when they counted the most.
But they did play defense like a bunch a bitches the last 6 seconds, didn't they?
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Old 05-06-2005, 06:47 AM   #47
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the team that scores the most points wins the game... period. the whole offense wins games, defense wins championships and/or offense sells tickets, defense wins games, rebounding wins championships cliche's are so stupid and overplayed... it's rediculous.

the only cliche' that is always true 100% of the time is simply the team that scores the most points wins the game.

basketball is a game of continuous action. everything is intertwined. offense, defense and rebounding all effect each other. if a team consistantly makes the other team shoot with under 5 on the shot clock, they've played as well as you possiably can on defense. but if they give up a large number of offensive rebounds, take that great defense and throw it out the window. if a team sucks on offense... turns the ball over, misses lots of shots... this gives the other team more opportunities to score. blah blah friggin blah.

it's not the best offense that wins... it's not the best defense that wins... it's not the best rebounding team that wins. it's the team that can evenly ballance all aspects of the game that will ultimately win.

and as for the bulls-wizards "who deserves to win" argument... it's very simple. the team that wins the game deserves to win.

hewson summed it up perfectly... why do the bulls deserve to win? they were getting dismantled for 40 of the 48 minutes. shouldn't the team that plays the best for the majority of the game deserve to win?

but your argument is also valid... the wizards choked down the stretch (despite winning... can ya really choke and win? i guess so). so don't the bulls deserve to win because they played so well down the stretch?

ultimately... you're both right. both teams can claim that they "deserve" to win. but ultimately, only one team does... and unless there was cheating going on, the team that wins deserves to wins. all good coaches know that... perhaps with the exception of jeff van gundy...
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Old 05-06-2005, 09:00 AM   #48
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Paul Pierce officially nominated himself for jackass of the year award last night. How is it that you get thrown out of a game when you're going to the line to ice the victory? It showed a total lack of restraint and respect for his teammates. Waving his jersey around on his way down the tunnel was even worse. Very fortunate Gm 7 is tomorrow and Paul isn't getting forced to go into the witness relocation program.
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Old 05-06-2005, 09:03 AM   #49
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paul pierce gets ejected from a tie game in the 4th quarter, antwoine walker got himself suspended earlier in the series...

why again did the celtics never advanced as far as they probably should have the last time these two were teamed up? ahh yes... now i remember.
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Old 05-06-2005, 09:43 AM   #50
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the team that scores the most points wins the game... period. the whole offense wins games, defense wins championships and/or offense sells tickets, defense wins games, rebounding wins championships cliche's are so stupid and overplayed... it's rediculous.

the only cliche' that is always true 100% of the time is simply the team that scores the most points wins the game.

basketball is a game of continuous action. everything is intertwined. offense, defense and rebounding all effect each other. if a team consistantly makes the other team shoot with under 5 on the shot clock, they've played as well as you possiably can on defense. but if they give up a large number of offensive rebounds, take that great defense and throw it out the window. if a team sucks on offense... turns the ball over, misses lots of shots... this gives the other team more opportunities to score. blah blah friggin blah.

it's not the best offense that wins... it's not the best defense that wins... it's not the best rebounding team that wins. it's the team that can evenly ballance all aspects of the game that will ultimately win.

and as for the bulls-wizards "who deserves to win" argument... it's very simple. the team that wins the game deserves to win.

hewson summed it up perfectly... why do the bulls deserve to win? they were getting dismantled for 40 of the 48 minutes. shouldn't the team that plays the best for the majority of the game deserve to win?

but your argument is also valid... the wizards choked down the stretch (despite winning... can ya really choke and win? i guess so). so don't the bulls deserve to win because they played so well down the stretch?

ultimately... you're both right. both teams can claim that they "deserve" to win. but ultimately, only one team does... and unless there was cheating going on, the team that wins deserves to wins. all good coaches know that... perhaps with the exception of jeff van gundy...
Don't rag on Van Gundy. I don't know if what he said is true or not, but it certainly could be. It looked like the refs were calling some games against Yao for sure, VG claimed an insider confirmed it, and then Stern pulled a typical Stern, absolutely refusing to even open his mind for one millionth of a nanosecond to the possibility that maybe just maybe his refs screwed up. I mean come on, aside from the Yao stuff, Finley clearly ran out of bounds and then back in before knocking that ball away in Game 4, the ref clearly saw it, the ref clearly decided not to call it. What the hell is that? The way I see it, VG attempted to call them out, Stern attempted to shut VG up by giving him a ridiculous fine so that he(Stern) could go on smiling that goofy smile of his pretending his refs are the most perfect refs in the world.

And defense wins championships. Period. End of discussion. It's not a cliche that's stuipd and/or overplayed, it's fact. The only teams to win the title in the last 15 years that didn't have one of the best defenses in the league were the Shaq/Kobe Laker teams. 88-89/89-90 Pistons - totally built on D and dirty play. Bulls of the 90s - had a defense that was equally as explosive as their offense. The Rockets of Hakeem and co. were very good defensively. The Spurs of Duncan and Robinson were great defensively. The current Pistons were great defensively. And these recent Spurs and Pistons teams were never really very special offensively, nothing like the Suns or Mavs. They relied on their defense and it won titles. Did you even watch the 03 finals between the Nets and Spurs? That series was almost unwatchable because it was almost entirely a defensive battle, no real offense to speak of. And the Spurs ended up winning it. Defense wins championships. And I'll take the word of pretty much every basketball analyst/commentator/announcer/player/coach I've ever come across in my 15 years of watching the NBA over yours, if you don't mind.

And the idea that the team that wins is always the team that deserved to win is pure BULLSHIT. There is literally a litany of games from the Lakers' 02 and 04 playoff runs that they won but didn't deserve to win. If you know anything about basketball, and I think you do, you know that Shaq got away with everything in LA, I mean even more than he does now. I don't want to get in a big arguement about the Lakers so that's all I'll say about it. But I stand by it.

Oh, and Paul Pierce is a fool. I really really really really hope Reggie and the Pacers pull it out in game 7.
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Old 05-06-2005, 10:42 AM   #51
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The NBA has announced in an effort to coninue the Reggie Miller retiremnet tour that it may suspend Paul Pierce for game 7 for throwing an elbow.
It may also suspend Antoine Walker for not throwing an elbow, and is contemplating suspending Gary Payton, Raef Lafrentz, Al Jefferson, Marcus Banks and Ricky Davis for wearing green uniforms after Easter.
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Old 05-06-2005, 10:45 AM   #52
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Originally posted by namkcuR


Don't rag on Van Gundy. I don't know if what he said is true or not, but it certainly could be. It looked like the refs were calling some games against Yao for sure, VG claimed an insider confirmed it, and then Stern pulled a typical Stern, absolutely refusing to even open his mind for one millionth of a nanosecond to the possibility that maybe just maybe his refs screwed up. I mean come on, aside from the Yao stuff, Finley clearly ran out of bounds and then back in before knocking that ball away in Game 4, the ref clearly saw it, the ref clearly decided not to call it. What the hell is that? The way I see it, VG attempted to call them out, Stern attempted to shut VG up by giving him a ridiculous fine so that he(Stern) could go on smiling that goofy smile of his pretending his refs are the most perfect refs in the world.

And defense wins championships. Period. End of discussion. It's not a cliche that's stuipd and/or overplayed, it's fact. The only teams to win the title in the last 15 years that didn't have one of the best defenses in the league were the Shaq/Kobe Laker teams. 88-89/89-90 Pistons - totally built on D and dirty play. Bulls of the 90s - had a defense that was equally as explosive as their offense. The Rockets of Hakeem and co. were very good defensively. The Spurs of Duncan and Robinson were great defensively. The current Pistons were great defensively. And these recent Spurs and Pistons teams were never really very special offensively, nothing like the Suns or Mavs. They relied on their defense and it won titles. Did you even watch the 03 finals between the Nets and Spurs? That series was almost unwatchable because it was almost entirely a defensive battle, no real offense to speak of. And the Spurs ended up winning it. Defense wins championships. And I'll take the word of pretty much every basketball analyst/commentator/announcer/player/coach I've ever come across in my 15 years of watching the NBA over yours, if you don't mind.

And the idea that the team that wins is always the team that deserved to win is pure BULLSHIT. There is literally a litany of games from the Lakers' 02 and 04 playoff runs that they won but didn't deserve to win. If you know anything about basketball, and I think you do, you know that Shaq got away with everything in LA, I mean even more than he does now. I don't want to get in a big arguement about the Lakers so that's all I'll say about it. But I stand by it.
you're completely missing the point, while at the same time bolstering what i was saying.

good defense helps to win championships... but it does not win it alone. those "dirty" pistons teams of the late 80s had explosive defensive players such as isiah thomas, joe dumars and vinny johnson.

the 90s bulls had dominant offensive players in jordan and scottie pippen, as well as a plethora of great shooting role players, i.e. bj armstrong, john paxson, steve kerr, etc. etc.

the mid 90s rockets had hakeem and kenny the jet smith, along with young explosive players like sam cassell, mario ellie, vernon maxwell & robert horry. the second rockets championship team had clyde drexler.

the first spurs championship team had duncan and robinson... equally as dominant on the offensive end as they were on the defensive end. the second title... the brutal nets-spurs series... turned in the spurs favor based largely on the play of duncan and the offensive spark provided by speedy claxton. tony parker had a sub par series and was getting tooled by kidd. claxton came in and the nets didn't have an answer for him defensively and provided just enough of a boost to allow the spurs to come out on top in 6 games, and got speedy a nice hefty contract that summer. did you watch the sereis?

and vice versa... the lakers. the lakers championship teams of the 80s and late 90s were built around dominant offense. but don't be fooled. a large reason why they in fact won so often was because both teams had dominating big men anchoring the defense. the entire showtime concept was based around the fast break... you do not run a fast break offense without a good defense. it just doesn't work. fast breaks come off missed shots, rebounds and turn overs... so again... a great offense is often intertwined with a great defense.

so again... the team that can balance all aspects of the game wins championships. this doesn't mean that a team can't be a primarily defensive orientated team, or vice/versa. it simply means that even a great defensive team needs to be able to score in order to win it all, and a great offensive team needs to be able to stop somebody if they want to win. it's not as clear cut as defense wins championships. and i'll take the years of experience as a player and now a coach, learning/studying and living the game, listening to and having conversations with some of the best minds in the game, over the dick vitales, billy packers and greg anthony's of the world, if you don't mind. defense wins championships is a great sound bite. the reality is that it's much more complicated than that.

as for shaq... shaq does get away with a lot of offensive fouls, yes. this is certainly true. but he also gets hammered on every possesion, often without a call, more than any other player in recent memory... probably since the jordan rules defense of the pistons.

the whole deserve to win vs. doesn't deserve to win argument is stupid and invalid because frankly is objective. it's your opinion that the lakers didn't deserve to win that game. there's no fact involved, and there are valid arguments on both sides of the plate. so while i do agree with you that there are times where i am playing/coaching/watching a game that ends up in the lose colomn that i feel my team deserved to win, i know full well that there have been plenty of times where i've been on the winning side where the team that lost feels that they deserved to win, too. it's all based on opinion. both teams are working hard, both teams put in the practice time, both teams have put out so much blood, sweat and tears along the way that to say the team that deserved to win didn't deserve to do so because they may have caught a few breaks over the course of the game is insulting them. and it's something that, as a coach, i refuse to do.

as for jeff van gundy... i love him. i really do. i've met him on a number of occasions when he was an unknown assistant with the knicks. we both played basketball for the same college, and then later transfered out of that college. i've always looked up to him. but let's look at simple logic here... jeff baisicly said that the nba is making it harder on yao because mark cuban complained.

think about that...

the NBA... david stern... who has been the best marketing commish we've ever seen in any sport... is going to hold back Yao Ming... a guy who has a greater marketing potential than any other player in NBA history... because Mark Cuban... a guy who's been fined more often than any owner in NBA history and has been a constant thorn in stern's side... asked him to?

does that make any sense to you what-so-ever?

the more likely scenario is that a memorendum was sent to officials by the head official to "watch illegal screens," without mentiong specific names. these notes are often sent in the nba, ncaa and even high school. it's not a conspiracy, it's just a "note of emphasis." i could show you a copy of a "note of emphasis" for suffolk county boys high school basketball that i got my hands on. high school. it occurs all the time... always has occured... will continue to occur at all levels.

what is not occuring is some vast conspiracy against yao ming. and that's baisicly what van gundy was insinuating. coaches always get on refs for bad/missed calls, especially in the playoffs. and they usually either get away with it or get a small, meaningless fine. van gundy took it to the next level. he baisicly accused the league of trying to fix the games. thus why his fine was so high.

if you want to talk hypocrisy, you can talk about how ben wallace got a 5 game suspension for starting a riot and van gundy got a 100,000k fine for just words. now you have an argument.


now i must go to an extended happy hour... i will be more than happy to continue this discusion with you and/or reply to any response tommorow morning.
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Old 05-06-2005, 11:03 AM   #53
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I am going to the MCI Center tonight. I was able to buy tickets yesterday since the Wizards are pathetic enough that they cannot even sell out an arena when they have a chance to win their first playoff series in like 20 years.

However, I will be cheering for the Bulls for two reasons: (i) Andres Nocioni, a player of Argentina's gold-medal winning team in Athens and (ii) former team of his airness, Michael Jordan, whom I will admire as the best ever basketball player of all times.
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Old 05-06-2005, 02:31 PM   #54
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Reports are leaking that Steve Nash will be the MVP.
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Old 05-06-2005, 08:08 PM   #55
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Gggggggeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhh

Stupid stupid stupid stupid Tyson Chandler.

Please, somebody explain to him the three point line. Apparently the fact that he's an inside player who doesn't use it has led him to believe that it doesn't exist.

(And while we're at it, can somebody tell Chris Duhon to look at the bright orange sphere?






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Old 05-07-2005, 07:28 AM   #56
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is having to face the heat really worth celebrating?
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Old 05-07-2005, 07:29 AM   #57
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is having to face the heat really worth celebrating?
It is if the last time you won a playoff series was before the War album.
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Old 05-08-2005, 09:23 AM   #58
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I feel bad for Tracy MacGrady. That was a hell of a thumping the Rockets took....he deserves to get out of the first round. Rockets just need to get a better supporting cast around TMac and Yao...a young/faster one. And they need to get a real point. And Yao needs to get more consistant concerning his overall game.

Here's to watching the Suns and Mavs average a combined 800ppg in the conference semies
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Old 05-08-2005, 09:39 AM   #59
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yao needs to get with a true point and get away from playing with a 2 who feels the need to jack up 30 shots a night.

if he played with a j-kidd or a steve nash or even a tony parker he'd be unstoppable. but he'll always defer to a guy like mcgrady or francis, just the way his personality is. i will say that mcgrady did a much better job of getting yao touches than francis, but if ya got a 7'6" guy with touch, he needs the ball more... imo
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Old 05-08-2005, 08:00 PM   #60
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Well the West is heating up.... I predict the Spurs will dipose of the Sonics in no less than 5 games. I think the Suns/Mavs series will be a well fought series with Phoenix closing out Dallas in 6 or 7. Now my question is what do guys think of an impending Suns/Spurs match up in the West finals. (Split season series with each respective team winning at home. Phoenix has overall homecourt the entire time they stay in the playoffs) Also which team poses the better match up against (or has the better chance of beating the Heat/Pistons) I think its the Suns but I'm also disposed to a person bias. What are your thoughts?
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