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Old 04-29-2005, 07:32 AM   #16
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compared to the talent of shaq and kobe? yes... 100% absolutely.
But winning an NBA championship is not just about individual talent, it is about which group of players does that best job of harnessing their individual talents and combining them to make the best machine, so-to-speak. The Pistons were the better team in the 04 Finals. No, they didn't have any one player better than Shaq, but as a team, they were better. That's why they won the series in 5 games.
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Old 04-29-2005, 07:58 AM   #17
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But winning an NBA championship is not just about individual talent, it is about which group of players does that best job of harnessing their individual talents and combining them to make the best machine, so-to-speak. The Pistons were the better team in the 04 Finals. No, they didn't have any one player better than Shaq, but as a team, they were better. That's why they won the series in 5 games.
fine... if it suits you better, i will reword...

the lakers lost to a collection of less talented players who would have been humiliated had kobe bryant not been a giant douche bag... and/or would have been humiliated if san antonio or minnesota had advanced to the finals instead. they just happened to run into the right team at the right time and took full advantage of the situation. they could have shit the bed anyway, but they didn't, and they fully deserved to be crowned NBA champions, despite not having the most talent.

that work better for you?

people tend to forget that shaq dominated ben & rasheed wallace in this series... they also tend to forget that the west dominated the east throughout the regular season... that the pistons barely got by the Nets, a team that had lost the previous two NBA finals in convincing fashion (and a team that is currently getting dismantled by the Shaq led Miami Heat right now...)

i'm not saying detroit isn't good, or that detroit didn't deserve to win last year... they won, so they deserve it. all i'm saying is that people tend to over-rate the pistons' talent level just a tad.
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Old 04-29-2005, 09:35 AM   #18
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People tend to overrate Kobe Bryant too. Seriously...for arguement's sake, let's imagine a scenario where Kobe gets traded to LA in 1996, just like he was, but where Shaq re-signs in Orlando instead of coming to LA. What would Kobe have become? I think he would've been a good player, probably something like the likes of Vince Carter or Paul Pierce, but he NEVER would've gotten the hype and the fame he's gotten, and he never would've gotten all of these homers(not you, you actually know what you're talking about) that think he's automatically an HOF player. I don't think so. For my money, Shaq and Duncan are the only players in the NBA right now who will go to the HOF for sure.

Rant over.
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Old 04-29-2005, 10:11 AM   #19
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For my money, Shaq and Duncan are the only players in the NBA right now who will go to the HOF for sure.

Rant over.
There's certainly a few other sure fire hall of famers playing currently...Kevin Garnett, Allen Iverson, Jason Kidd (he's already in the wife beater's hall of fame)...and a few who haven't had the time in the league yet to be locks but certainly will be barring major injury... Dirk Diggler Nowitzki, LeBron for example. As for Koberapist, he'll likley get in due to the titles and high scoring average, but he represents an awful loy of what's wrong with today's NBA (not to mention his off court issues).
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Old 04-29-2005, 10:31 AM   #20
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For my money, Shaq and Duncan are the only players in the NBA right now who will go to the HOF for sure.
i'll bite...

of the current players in the NBA...

If they retired today they're in... no questions asked
Shaq
Tim Duncan
Kevin Garnett
Reggie Miller
Jason Kidd
Gary Payton
Allen Iverson
Kobe Bryant
Darko Milicic

The "at one point we looked destined to be hall of famers but something went horrificly wrong along the way so now have no chance" club, with what went wrong in parenthesis
Grant Hill... (ankles)
Alonzo Mourning... kidneys
Vince Carter... (bitchfullness)
Anfernee Hardaway... (shaq left)
Latrell Sprewell... (pj carlisemo's neck)
Rasheed Wallace... (weed)
Ron Artest... (party cup)

The "someone with less than half a clue will try to argue these guys but the reality is they ain't gettin' in" club
Stephon Marbury
Paul Pierce
Antowine Walker
Ben Wallace
Steve Francis

The Dikembe Mutumbo Award for a guy who pretty much sucks but was so dominant at one particular aspect of the game that you have to at least consider him for a half a second before dismissing him
Dikembe Mutumbo

The would be locks for the Hall of they continued their current pace for at least another 5+ years
Lebron James
Dirk Nowtizki
Amare Stoudamire
Tracy McGrady
Jermaine O'Neal
Steve Nash

The guys with the potential to get there, but it's waaaaaaaaay too early to really decide where there careers will go
Dwayne Wade
Yao Ming
Kirk Hinrich
Michael Redd
Carmello Anthony
Andrei Kirilenko
Ben Gordon
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Old 04-29-2005, 02:11 PM   #21
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Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase


the lakers lost to a collection of less talented players who would have been humiliated had kobe bryant not been a giant douche bag... and/or would have been humiliated if san antonio or minnesota had advanced to the finals instead. they just happened to run into the right team at the right time and took full advantage of the situation. they could have shit the bed anyway, but they didn't, and they fully deserved to be crowned NBA champions, despite not having the most talent.

that work better for you?

people tend to forget that shaq dominated ben & rasheed wallace in this series... they also tend to forget that the west dominated the east throughout the regular season... that the pistons barely got by the Nets, a team that had lost the previous two NBA finals in convincing fashion (and a team that is currently getting dismantled by the Shaq led Miami Heat right now...)

i'm not saying detroit isn't good, or that detroit didn't deserve to win last year... they won, so they deserve it. all i'm saying is that people tend to over-rate the pistons' talent level just a tad.
Ah, c'mon. You can't shut down everybody on the other team all the time. The Pistons chose to keep Shaq single-covered most of the time, and he scored tons of points, but everybody else won their matchups.
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Old 04-29-2005, 06:42 PM   #22
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Ben Wallace just got knocked over by Allen Iverson, drawing a charge.

I'm not sure which of them should be more embarrassed by the incident.
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Old 05-01-2005, 08:59 AM   #23
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Ah, c'mon. You can't shut down everybody on the other team all the time. The Pistons chose to keep Shaq single-covered most of the time, and he scored tons of points, but everybody else won their matchups.
that's kinda my point... they knew shaq was gonna score anyways... so instead of double teaming him, they doubled kobe... 'cause larry brown actually watched a game film and picked up on the worst kept secret in basketball... kobe doesn't care if he's double teamed and has no shot, he's shooting anyway, because he is, in fact, a rotten little bitch.

plan worked to perfection.
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Old 05-01-2005, 10:24 PM   #24
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Kobe averaged 27.5 pts, 6 rebs, and 6 assists a game this year. The guy is an rat bastard, but he is one of the most talented players in the league.

Will be in the hall of fame
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Old 05-01-2005, 10:51 PM   #25
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I hope everyone here is comparing Michaels stats to kobe's stats, even when Kobe has his own team, he can not average as much as Michael or can he get anywhere near Michael's FG%. Michael was always 50% for his career, while Kobe is around 45% or less. Just in case there are any Kobe lovers here, no one will ever be better then Michael he is the KING of basketball, stats dont lie, Kobe is good, but he doesnt have the talent or the intelligence of MJ. And PIPPEN RULES ALSO! And the BULLS will hopefully win a couple games against Miami!
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Old 05-02-2005, 07:29 AM   #26
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I hope everyone here is comparing Michaels stats to kobe's stats, even when Kobe has his own team, he can not average as much as Michael or can he get anywhere near Michael's FG%. Michael was always 50% for his career, while Kobe is around 45% or less. Just in case there are any Kobe lovers here, no one will ever be better then Michael he is the KING of basketball, stats dont lie, Kobe is good, but he doesnt have the talent or the intelligence of MJ. And PIPPEN RULES ALSO! And the BULLS will hopefully win a couple games against Miami!
yea thanks... only a douchetacular douchearoonie would ever compare michael jordan to kobe bryant... no one was doing such things here.

but your arguments about why Jordan is better than Kobe... which is obviously true... are not good arguments. you can't go on stats alone. if stats were all that mattered, than hands down, no questions asked, Wilt Chamberlain is the greatest player to ever live.

but he's not... Jordan is. stats count only so much.
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Old 05-02-2005, 07:33 AM   #27
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Kobe averaged 27.5 pts, 6 rebs, and 6 assists a game this year. The guy is an rat bastard, but he is one of the most talented players in the league.

Will be in the hall of fame
he's also the second worst guy to have as a teammate in the entire NBA, right behind Iverson.

his assists were up (although just 2 years ago, with shaq, he averaged 5.9 a game), but his field goal percentage was down... again... his turnovers were up, and, most importantly, his touches were WAY up.
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Old 05-02-2005, 08:21 AM   #28
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the nets were the hottest team in the east comming into the playoffs... and they just got trounced in 4 straight by the heat.

hmm... lemme try to figure out who's winning the title this year...

miami... my mami
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Old 05-02-2005, 08:28 AM   #29
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u dont think Detroit have a chance of knocking them off?

I say Miami over Detroit in 6 or 7, but the Pistons got a chance at it.
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Old 05-02-2005, 09:02 AM   #30
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i said miami in 6 before the playoffs started so i'll stick with it... but the fact that detroit hasn't ripped philadelphia apart is troubeling to me...
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