NBA Basketball 2008-09: The Thread

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How LeBron Could Kick Off Knicks' Shopping Spree
By Marc Stein
ESPN.com
(Archive)
Just LeBron James?

Why do the New York Knickerbockers have to stop there?

The Knicks made two payroll-slashing trades Friday that suggest they have far more grandiose ideas about the delicious free-agent summer of 2010. When I ran this past a few people who would know how they think in the executive suite at Madison Square Garden, I wasn't exactly dissuaded from the following claim: Donnie Walsh and Mike D'Antoni are brazen enough to think they'll have enough flexibility to try to sign LeBron, Chris Bosh and Steve Nash for Nash's last hurrah when the bidding opens, oh, about 586 days from now.

And here's the thing: That might just be mathematically possible now.

It is often said that those of us in the media tend to get a bit hysterical when we start talking about the NBA signing frenzy that looms in July of Twenty-Ten. To which I can only say: Us?

We're really only taking our cue from the teams we cover.

Seriously. Thanksgiving 2008 is still days away, and we've already seen Detroit and New York combine to push through three league-shaking trades, each of them with a run at LeBron that can't start for more than 19 months accounting for most, if not all, of the trigger-pulling motivation.

No one seems terribly interested in that famed cautionary tale which reminds us that Shaquille O'Neal is the only max-contract free agent in league history to switch teams and win a championship, racking up three rings with the Lakers (and one after being traded to the Heat) after leaving the Magic.

As noted in our LeBron opus earlier this month, no fewer than 15 teams -- including the Cavaliers -- awoke Friday morning with less than $40 million in committed salaries on their books for 2010-11, hoarding salary-cap space for a free-agent class so tantalizing that we scarcely talk about folks such as Amare Stoudemire, Dirk Nowitzki and Joe Johnson.

Yet that list has a new A-Team after the Knicks managed to shed their long-term salary obligations to Zach Randolph and Jamal Crawford in a matter of hours in separate deals with the Clippers and Warriors. Doing what Walsh has vowed to do since he arrived -- but doing it faster than even he could have dreamed -- leaves only four current players on the payroll beyond 2009-10: Eddy Curry (scheduled to earn $11.3 million in 2010-11), Jared Jeffries (unlikely to opt out of the $6.8 million he's due), Danilo Gallinari ($3.3 million) and Wilson Chandler ($2.1 million).

So …

Although it'll take ongoing personnel diligence to keep that many spots open for the summer of truth, starting with the decisions that certainly have to be made soon on extensions for David Lee and Nate Robinson, it's suddenly presumed all over the league that the team in the most irresistible market to James will look even more attractive than expected with room to sign two elite players ... just as it is instantly presumed that the Knicks will have too much money, too much big-city appeal and too much fun potential with D'Antoni coaching not to come away with top talent no matter what happens with James.

"Imagine how sick Danny Ferry must be feeling right now," one top executive said, referring to the Cavaliers' GM.

Imagine, too, what happens if the Knicks find a way to move Curry in the next 19 months and create more flexibility.

Remember that warning we ran last week from our Team USA insider about the likes of James and Bosh or Bosh and Dwyane Wade wanting to play together full-time? "All of these players," he said, "want to play with each other in the NBA."

It shouldn't be too difficult, if Curry goes, to envision D'Antoni urging Nash to finish his career on a short-term deal as a Stockton-esque setup sage for the young guns who plays less than 30 minutes a night in a city where the 34-year-old spends his offseasons playing soccer. Especially if the Suns don't start to rediscover the fun that clearly has drained out of some Phoenix faces since D'Antoni left.

I haven't budged from the belief that it's still way too soon for anyone to state with certainty that James is leaving Cleveland, or that Cleveland has lost its status as the favorite to keep him, even with teams such as San Antonio, Miami, Detroit, Portland and Dallas also expected to making pitches to the likes of LeBron, Bosh and Wade. I will likewise continue to say that the Cavs have much greater hope for re-signing their would-be Global Icon than Orlando ever had of keeping O'Neal, given LeBron's lifelong connections to Ohio, their owner's willingness to spend to keep James in perpetual championship contention and Shaq's thirst at the time to go Hollywood.

You're going to hear it ad nauseam until LeBron actually signs that next contract -- King James to the Knicks is a done deal! -- and we're going to keep countering with this: Why would LeBron decide anything so soon?

Remember, things change fast in this league. Take Friday, for example. Years of wasteful spending in Gotham, which gradually sucked the life and hope out of the greatest basketball arena in the world, were seemingly undone by one afternoon of heavy New York trading.

Isiah Thomas, incidentally, does get an assist here. The Knicks plummeted so far on Zeke's watch that Walsh could interrupt an unexpectedly positive 6-5 start by dumping D'Antoni's top two scorers on the fourth Friday of the season and still immediately convince his fan base that waiting 586 days to see whom the Knicks finally land with all that spending money is the right play.

LeBron?

And Bosh?

And Nash?

OK, OK. It's going to be a long time before we get any of those answers, so we'll try to show some restraint from here.

At least we'll try until Tuesday night. That's when LeBron's Cavs visit MSG … and when the media pests swarm James with those uncomfortable questions that teams such as the Knicks won't allow us to save for a later date.
 
Apparently Lebron's jump shot is already a Knick...he visits it whenever he plays at MSG I guess.
 
Finally! Thank you Mr. Adande!

LeBron doesn't need New York to shine brightly

The two biggest NBA myths around are that LeBron James needs to be in New York and that the league needs the Knicks to be good.

Anyone who still believes you can make it only in Manhattan probably still calls remote controls "clickers." This isn't the Walter Cronkite era, when we got our news from men sitting at desks in New York. These aren't the old Don Draper days, when everything we thought we knew and needed was generated by the ad shops on Madison Avenue.

LeBron, playing in little old Cleveland, stands to make more in endorsement money this year than New York Yankees superstars Alex Rodriguez and Derek Jeter will combined. And they play for the Yankees. LeBron could win eight championships with the Knicks and they still wouldn't rule that city the way the Yankees do. Oh, and you could add Peyton Manning's $13 million to Jeter and A-Rod's $14 million and it still won't match LeBron's $28 million in off-court money this year.

(If we didn't have bigger racial breakthroughs this year, we might ruminate on sociological implications of an African-American basketball player making more than twice as much endorsement money as a white NFL quarterback. Let's just say LeBron should be thankful for Julius Erving, Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan and even O.J. Simpson for making it possible for him to be the highest-paid team athlete in American sports this year.)

The only two people ahead of LeBron on Sports Illustrated's 2008 "Fortunate 50" list are golfers Tiger Woods and Phil Mickelson. They can live anywhere they want, but they don't feel the need to be in New York. They'll pass on the outrageous price-per-square-footage costs for dwellings that don't have a single blade of grass. They'd rather be in Florida and Arizona, where they can be warm and (in Tiger's case) avoid paying state income taxes.

Now if James wants New York's vibrancy and thin-crust pizza, that's one thing. Maybe he just wants to play 41 games a year in Madison Square Garden. From the savvy fans to the booming sound system, it's still the NBA's best arena when it's at full blast.

But let's dispense with the notion that he has to go there, that it's the next step in his career and any other location between there and Los Angeles is a waste of his time. Patrick Ewing got to New York a year after MJ went to the Midwest … and you don't see people wearing Ewing's silhouette on their shoes.

LeBron made the cover of Sports Illustrated and played games on ESPN when he was a high schooler in Akron. In Cleveland, he's been on the cover of Fortune, Time and Vogue (maybe he should have rethought that last one). He has hosted "Saturday Night Live."

You don't need to go to the media anymore. The media come to you, even if it means parking a satellite truck at your curb. Just ask Joe the Plumber. In the world of YouTube, Flickr and Facebook, anyone with a digital camera and a high-speed Internet connection is the media. In fact, LeBron's best work can be found on the Web, in that sublime scene where Smooth LeBron romances Nicole Scherzinger with a pair of high-tops.

If LeBron goes to New York, he won't get any famouser. I'm forced to use a made-up word because the Knicks are a made-up mythology, somehow considered to be among the elite franchises even though the Rockets have won just as many championships in 21 fewer years of existence. The Warriors, Trail Blazers and Heat have won more recently than the Knicks. The Bullets and Sonics have won more recently, too, only they're not the Bullets and Sonics anymore.

When it comes to the league's health, the Knicks are like tonsils. It's nice to have them, but you can live without them. At the NBA's zenith in the 1980s, the stars of the program were in L.A. and Boston. The Knicks were the sideshow, giving us the occasional Bernard King scoring outbursts or the Ewing lottery. The best they could be in the early 1990s was an interesting villain to be vanquished, Sgt. Slaughter to Jordan's Hulk Hogan.

What happened the first two times Jordan retired and allowed the Knicks to get their time in the spotlight? Viewers left in droves. The biggest NBA Finals ratings drop-offs were from a 17.9 for Jordan in 1993 to a 12.4 for the Knicks and Rockets in 1994 and an 18.7 for Jordan in 1998 to an 11.3 for the Knicks and Spurs in 1999.

It doesn't matter that the Knicks reside in the nation's largest television market. New York only matters to New Yorkers. The rest of the country doesn't care.

Maybe LeBron buys into the New York hype because it seems as if he has spent his whole life surrounded by hype. The difference is, LeBron lives up to it.
 
LeBron doesn't need New York, but he's made it abundantly clear that he wants New York. I get it, but if I were LeBron I'd want to be a Celtic, maybe a Laker...and if neither of those were possible I'd just stay in Cleveland where I'm from and where they love me unconditionally. It's a cap league, you can win anywhere...if he was a baseball player, yeah, fine, go to NY. But in the NBA it really isn't necessary.

I do think there's value in going to the Knicks and winning (if he can)...it's sort of another Messier to the Rangers deal (though it hasn't been as long for the Knicks). I think Adande is being a bit disingenuous with his characterization of the Knicks...while they're not the Lakers or Celtics they're not the Bullets either. It's a franchise with history, and returning them to glory would look great on his resume.
 
:shrug: meh... then don't go. i'll be okay with amare soudamire and diane wade, or any other combination of two fo those guys.

it doesn't have to be lebron.

but to say new york doesn't matter is a bit silly from a silly writer. there are a ton of reasons why the ratings in 94 went down... the style of play being #1, the OJ case being #2.

the fact that lebron's original nike contract would have doubled if he plays in new york, chicago or LA certainly doesn't say "new york doesn't matter," either...
 
Observations...
1. I am sick of Phoenix and want them to go away...except Stoudamire. He's cool.
2. Do you think Iverson is struggling on the Pistons because he doesn't know how to fit in to a team concept?
Or is it because Michael Curry sometimes looks like a deer in headlights when he coaches...:hmm:

3.I'm happy the Bulls drafted Rose and not Beasley. That said, I do not think the Heat know how to use him.

Thanks,
Phil

Oh, and p.s. - Dan Gadzuric is not good.
 
Observations...
1. I am sick of Phoenix and want them to go away...except Stoudamire. He's cool.
2. Do you think Iverson is struggling on the Pistons because he doesn't know how to fit in to a team concept?
Or is it because Michael Curry sometimes looks like a deer in headlights when he coaches...:hmm:

3.I'm happy the Bulls drafted Rose and not Beasley. That said, I do not think the Heat know how to use him.

Thanks,
Phil

Oh, and p.s. - Dan Gadzuric is not good.


1. agreed... it's sad to see phoenix not running and gunning. and hopefully stoudamire still wears orange and blue for years to come, just not in phoenix :wink:

2. iverson has only been able to fit into a team concept for two men... john thompson and larry brown. and it was touch and go for larry brown. michael curry has no chance... they're both at fault.

3. while i still think the jury is out on wether or not they should have taken beasley or not, i 100% agree that miami has no idea how to use him.

and yes, dan gadzuric sucks.
 
final at the garden (in regulation)

knicks 138, warriors 125
d-lee 37 points, 21 rebounds
harrington 36 points, 12 rebounds
duhon 12 points, 22 assists (new knicks single game record)

:hi5:

btw... Chris Duhon now thru 16 games is averaging 8.1 assists per game... tied for fourth in the league with baron davis, trailing only paul, calderon and kidd... and 0.1 assists per game more than...

:drumroll:

steve nash.
 
it would be nice to see a nice old fashioned knicks-bulls playoff series for all the eastern marbles again one day.

will be a bit different style of play this time around if it were to ever happen me thinks...

It would have to be, considering the kind of defense the Knicks played in the 90s is more or less against the rules now, wouldn't it?
 
Al Harrington and Tim Thomas could work out very well for NY. I think they both fit D'Antoni's system very well.

Remember when the Bulls didn't need Duhon? Yup, they didn't need his 8.1 assists at all....:mad:

i still remember everyone's talk about how duhon could not be the guy to lead a team based upon what he did with the bulls.. but i coudln't disagree more thus far. his assist to turnover ratio has been fantastic.
 
1.I think Duhon's performance so far this season is more D'Antoni than anything else. Duhon has a high basketball IQ but during his years on the Bulls he was playing on a team that had no offensive system. If you watched the Bulls at all during the Skiles years you know what I'm talking about. D'Antoni's system is very conducive to big offensive numbers for even average players. Duhon is a solid role player, but playing in this system has helped him. Also, the decision to not re-sign him wasn't made until after we landed the #1 pick and knew we had Rose. With Rose, Hinrich, Gordon, Hughes, and Thabo, we already had a big-time logjam in the backcourt. Duhon was the odd man out. There was just no role for him on the Bulls anymore.

2.Phil is right, Hinrich should go. Not only Hinrich, but Nocioni too. They should both be dealt ASAP for 2009 or 2010 expiring contracts while there are still contracts out there that expire in that time frame and that don't belong to un-acquirable players. And we should let Gordon go wherever he wants this offseason. Trade one of Hinrich and Noc, and let the acquired expiring, along with Hughes and Gooden, expire, and we can make a max offer in 2010. Trade both Hinrich and Noc and let Gordon go, and let all expirings expire, and we can make two max offers in 2010. That's what I want. All in for 2010. Rose + 1 or 2 of the big guys in 2010 = instant core. That's my opinion. Detroit and New York have already made it loud and clear that they are in the 2010 game. Chicago can easily be in the game and they would be foolish not to be. The only thing that gives me pause is that Gooden has been very solid for the last 5-10 games and if he continues playing like that, I don't know about just letting him go for nothing.
 
I agree with everything above.

However, who would take Hinrich or Nocioni??? I guess we could try to trade Kirk back to Skiles in Milwaukee? Where is Isaiah Thomas when you need to dump over paid players??

I miss Derek Harper too...
 
Magic/Celtics tonight, should be fun. Orlando is a tough matchup for Boston with Howard; Perkins is game but he can't help but get in foul trouble against a guy like Dwight. What they did last year was just hack him with Perk and Pollard, but without Pollard's 6 fouls there it falls to Powe, and they actually need Powe at the other end.

Question for anyone...I used to hate the defensive ball in the 90s, the Heat and Knicks, all the hacking. But I love watching the Celts play D, it seems like it's more being active and creating turnovers vs. the 90s teams just looking to clog the lane and bog the game down. So does anyone else see a difference, or is it just my Celtic-fan bias?
 
Magic/Celtics tonight, should be fun. Orlando is a tough matchup for Boston with Howard; Perkins is game but he can't help but get in foul trouble against a guy like Dwight. What they did last year was just hack him with Perk and Pollard, but without Pollard's 6 fouls there it falls to Powe, and they actually need Powe at the other end.

Question for anyone...I used to hate the defensive ball in the 90s, the Heat and Knicks, all the hacking. But I love watching the Celts play D, it seems like it's more being active and creating turnovers vs. the 90s teams just looking to clog the lane and bog the game down. So does anyone else see a difference, or is it just my Celtic-fan bias?

I love this matchup, too, but the Magic are missing about half of their backcourt for tonight, including my new favorite: Monsieur Pietrus.
 
1.I think Duhon's performance so far this season is more D'Antoni than anything else. Duhon has a high basketball IQ but during his years on the Bulls he was playing on a team that had no offensive system. If you watched the Bulls at all during the Skiles years you know what I'm talking about. D'Antoni's system is very conducive to big offensive numbers for even average players. Duhon is a solid role player, but playing in this system has helped him. Also, the decision to not re-sign him wasn't made until after we landed the #1 pick and knew we had Rose. With Rose, Hinrich, Gordon, Hughes, and Thabo, we already had a big-time logjam in the backcourt. Duhon was the odd man out. There was just no role for him on the Bulls anymore.

it's early yet and there's still plenty of time for him to stink it up... but i think he's slightly better than "role player" status, and he's above average.

i certainly agree that d'antoni's system is conducive to bigger numbers... heck, just look at nash's numbers this year. he has fewer assists than duhon.

is duhon a star? no. but he is a highly effective true point, especially in a real offensive system, i.e. ball movement and hitting the open guy as opposed to isolation play and too many dribbles (AAU hizzah!).

it could be said that he's just perfect for the system. but you can say that about a lot of players... would magic have been as succesful in a slow down half court system? would stockton be as succesful in a fast break style? who knows... obviously duhon isn't in the same hemisphere as those guys. i just find it humerous that a guy who's 4th in the league in assists was the odd man out because of thabo shefawamamalosa.

the only players with at least 5 assists per game with a better assist to turnover ratio than duhon thus far are calderon, paul, billups and rondo.

speaking of... calderon's having a terrific start to the season in his own right. he's just shy of 10 assists to game and his assist to turnover ratio is off the charts.
 
I love this matchup, too, but the Magic are missing about half of their backcourt for tonight, including my new favorite: Monsieur Pietrus.

Yeah they were a bit short, and it showed. Eventually we'll get a game between these 2 with everybody in the lineup...4 game series this year.
 
He's had some decent games. His assists are up quite a bit, which is where they should be when your playing point with KG, Allen and Peirce.
 
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