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Old 02-21-2008, 07:45 PM   #556
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Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase
isiah thomas brokered that deal.

only he could make a trade in which 11 players change teams and not a single thing is accomplished, other than one awful contract being traded for another.

ponderous.
What do you mean nothing was accomplished? Gooden and Hughes each individually outproduce Ben Wallace, and Gooden's contract is shorter than Wallace's, while Hughes' contract is the same length but for less $. And Shannon Brown could be a decent bench player. It won't make the Bulls a great team all of a sudden, but will give Tyrus Thomas and Jokaim Noah more PT and gets rid of Wallace's attitude problems and nonproductiveness.

Wallace, while declining and inconsistant, will still be a bolster to the Cavs' interior defense, while Wally is a good fit to the open shots created by LeBron's double-teams, and West is a good fit at PG.

The Sonics were just dumping contracts, but the Cavs got better and the Bulls got better(not by a great length, but better), so I don't see how you can say it accomplished nothing.
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Old 02-21-2008, 07:57 PM   #557
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What do you mean nothing was accomplished? Gooden and Hughes each individually outproduce Ben Wallace, and Gooden's contract is shorter than Wallace's, while Hughes' contract is the same length but for less $. And Shannon Brown could be a decent bench player. It won't make the Bulls a great team all of a sudden, but will give Tyrus Thomas and Jokaim Noah more PT and gets rid of Wallace's attitude problems and nonproductiveness.

Wallace, while declining and inconsistant, will still be a bolster to the Cavs' interior defense, while Wally is a good fit to the open shots created by LeBron's double-teams, and West is a good fit at PG.

The Sonics were just dumping contracts, but the Cavs got better and the Bulls got better(not by a great length, but better), so I don't see how you can say it accomplished nothing.
the sonics don't matter in this deal... all they're doing is dropping salary.

wally's an egomaniac who's worn out his welcome everywhere he's been. and if you've ever actually had any contact with the man, you'd understand instantly why he gets traded often. his sister's hot though, so i suppose that's a plus.

larry hughes contract is still 12+ million per, making him untradable except for another awful contract, and his game is very similar to that of ben gordon's. and thabo sefolosha is now bound to see less time.

drew gooden sucks.

anderson varejo is already better than ben wallace and younger and cheaper. but varejo's a terrible offensive player in his own right. now you're gonna put wallace and varejo on the court together? ya think wally's gonna get open shots? why would anybody come off of wally to double when you have two offensive bummity bum bum bummaroonies on the court to pick and choose from?

if getting tyrus thomas and joakim noah more playing time works for you, then hey... enjoy.

overall this was nothing more than a lot of mediocre players at high prices changing uniforms.
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Old 02-22-2008, 08:40 AM   #558
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I'm a bit surprised the Knicks didn't do anything. All the Isiah-mocking aside there is talent on that roster; you'd think somebody might want to add a Randolph or even a Starbury. Maybe Zeke wanted too much...
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Old 02-22-2008, 08:41 AM   #559
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I'm a bit surprised the Knicks didn't do anything. All the Isiah-mocking aside there is talent on that roster
umm...
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Old 02-22-2008, 09:43 AM   #560
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There is. If Q Richardson lost 40 pounds and everybody played hard all the time they're a playoff team easy...problem is, they don't play hard so they get blown out by the Sixers.
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Old 02-22-2008, 11:18 AM   #561
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overall this was nothing more than a lot of mediocre players at high prices changing uniforms.
I must agree. In fact Cleveland, who is the only playoff team of the 3 has puzzled me by making this move. I feel they got worse, not better...Gooden can at least score, Wallace's D won't make up for his total lack of O, and as you state Varejo can basically be Ben Wallace, including funky hairstyle, so why do you need 2 of those guys. Do they think Lebron can average 69ppg? Cause thats what it will now take for the Cavs to eclipse 80 points most nights.
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Old 02-22-2008, 12:00 PM   #562
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The only part that really makes sense to me is Delonte if they're worried about losing ground with Boobie Gibson out. I suppose they might be banking on Big Ben bringing the elusive intangibles/veteran leadership thing...and the not insignificant possibility it was a move just to placate the needy Lebron and his never-ending cries for help.
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Old 02-22-2008, 01:31 PM   #563
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There is. If Q Richardson lost 40 pounds and everybody played hard all the time they're a playoff team easy...problem is, they don't play hard so they get blown out by the Sixers.
umm...

i will give you this. yes, they do have talent.

problem is there is a large difference between "talent" and "good." everyone in the league, with the exception of isiah thomas, knows that guys like randolph and marbury are team cancers that destroy locker rooms and that eddy curry's heart issues were no big deal because he has no heart to begin with. no one wants them.
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Old 02-22-2008, 02:34 PM   #564
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Do you think there's a chance that any of those guys would be valuable contributors on a team with a solid leadership in place? Take Rasheed Wallace and Detroit...he came with a certain rep and he's gotten it somewhat under control (and yeah I know he still gets his share of T's). Or (I'm dating myself here) Dennis Johnson. He came with a lot of baggage but that Celtics locker room brought out his best. If I had to guess I'd say Starbury is probably a lost cause, but maybe guys like Randolph and Curry could get their act together in the right environment.
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Old 02-22-2008, 05:13 PM   #565
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Do you think there's a chance that any of those guys would be valuable contributors on a team with a solid leadership in place? Take Rasheed Wallace and Detroit...he came with a certain rep and he's gotten it somewhat under control (and yeah I know he still gets his share of T's). Or (I'm dating myself here) Dennis Johnson. He came with a lot of baggage but that Celtics locker room brought out his best. If I had to guess I'd say Starbury is probably a lost cause, but maybe guys like Randolph and Curry could get their act together in the right environment.
here is the key difference.

dennis johnson was an nba finals mvp before he ever set foot in boston.

rasheed wallace? yes it was surprising... but there's a few things here.
1) he played for a winning coach in college, going to the final four
2) he was the leading scorer on two western conference finalists
3) larry brown's north carolina roots played a key role in getting him under control for that half season
4) one could argue that if not for kobe bryant rasheed the pistons never would have won a title in the first place
5) one could also argue that rasheed has cost the pistons further success, most notably last year.


there are some on the knicks roster that i believe could be succesful in the right place... crawford, richardson, jeffries, collins, jones, robinson and especially lee and rose.

randolph, curry and marbury? no.

i mean maybe... MAYBE randolph if he's in the perfect situation, like the spurs. the other two? no chance.

just for shits and giggles...
zach randolph in 7 seasons has a .432 winning percentage and zero playoff series victories and 2 winning seasons.

eddy curry in 8 seasons has a .331 winning percentage and zero playoff series victories 1 winning season.

stephon marbury in 11 seasons has a .399 winning percentage and zero playoff series victories 2 winning seasons.

so between the three of them they have a career record of 777-1233, a .387 winning percentage, 5 winning seasons out of a total of 26 played, and zero playoff victories.

for them.
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Old 02-22-2008, 09:32 PM   #566
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So, apparently the Knicks and Bucks were close to making the following deal:

Knicks Trade:
Zach Randolph
Fred Jones

Bucks Trade:
Charlie Bell
Bobby Simmons
Dan Gadzuric

Help me. I don't understand this. I really don't.

Charlie Bell has a ways to go.

Bobby Simmons used to 'have potential' but it appears not to have panned out, and he is decidely average, at best.

Dan Gadzuric sucks.

Simmons is a sort of bad contract and Gadzuric is a very bad contract.

This trade would accomplish nothing for the Knicks but GIVING the Bucks Randolph and taking back two average-at-best players and one bad player and two bad contracts.

And why would the Bucks do it? They were supposed to be all about developing Yi and they have Bogut and Charlie Villueneva too, why would they create such a frontcourt glut that would only stunt Yi's development while not really making the team any better?

But back to the Knicks!

I can't fathom why they do this! They get nothing in return! No youth(other than Bell who may or may not be something), no picks, just average-at-best talent and bad contracts! It's astonishing!

What a terrible trade for both sides(had it went down).
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Old 02-22-2008, 10:03 PM   #567
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I actually think that Wally will be better for the Cavs than Hughes was. That alone will help I feel.
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Old 02-22-2008, 10:29 PM   #568
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Isn't Bell having statistically the worst season ever for a shooter?
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Old 02-23-2008, 07:17 AM   #569
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But back to the Knicks!

I can't fathom why they do this!
what is there to fathom? bad GMs make bad trades (or at least try to).


shaq dominated the boards last night, and you can already see how his mere presence on the court is going to open things up for amare stoudamire.

phoenix could be quite dangerous going forward.
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Old 02-23-2008, 11:07 AM   #570
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I actually think that Wally will be better for the Cavs than Hughes was. That alone will help I feel.
Have you ever actually watched Wally play for any stretch.
Can't create his own shot, terrible defender, he'll hit a few open shots if they triple LeBron, but thats about it.
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