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Old 12-26-2007, 09:59 PM   #301
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Paxson needed to grow a set and not be afraid of giving up "too much young talent" and trade for Kobe, giving the Lakers as much as they wanted.
The Celtics gave the T'wolves nearly an entire roster for Garnett, then pieced the bench back together through free agency.

Who looks smarter right now...Danny Ainge for potentially mortgaging the future or Paxson for staying the course?


The Bulls fired the wrong guy.
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Old 12-26-2007, 10:03 PM   #302
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Quote:
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Paxson needed to grow a set and not be afraid of giving up "too much young talent" and trade for Kobe, giving the Lakers as much as they wanted.
The Celtics gave the T'wolves nearly an entire roster for Garnett, then pieced the bench back together through free agency.

Who looks smarter right now...Danny Ainge for potentially mortaging the future or Paxson for staying the course?


The Bulls fired the wrong guy.
How about you get your facts straight. I'll be the first to criticize Paxson for his seemingly very nervous trigger finger, but the reality is that he ended up agreeing to a deal with LA. He gave LA what they wanted. It was Kobe who nixed the deal.

And everyone knows the stars aligned for the Celtics.

And I already typed out a long post about why Skiles fully deserved his firing.
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Old 12-27-2007, 08:19 AM   #303
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I don't really have a problem with Skiles getting axed; there's talent there and SS wasn't getting it done. I just think Paxson is as much to blame as Skiles for what's gone on. That said, I hadn't realized that it actually got to the point (re: a Kobe deal) where both teams had agreed on a deal and that KB was the one to kill it. I knew he didn't want to go there if Deng left but I didn't know it got as formal as they teams agreed and he blocked. If that's the case you can't really blame Paxson for not closing the deal.
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Old 12-27-2007, 08:47 AM   #304
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Originally posted by CTU2fan
That said, I hadn't realized that it actually got to the point (re: a Kobe deal) where both teams had agreed on a deal and that KB was the one to kill it. .
I've yet to find anything which says he did nix an agreed to deal. I've got this:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3090192

Quote:
Paxson says Bulls out of Kobe trade talks -- for now
ESPN.com news services

Updated: November 2, 2007, 2:45 PM ET


DEERFIELD, Ill. -- Chicago Bulls general manager John Paxson said that trade talks on Kobe Bryant with the Los Angeles Lakers have ended for now and downplayed the notion that the teams were ever on the verge of a deal.

"There's not a deal done," he said Thursday. "There's not going to be a deal done. All the things that were out there were really unfair to all of us who were trying to do our jobs. The misinformation ... I think gets in the way of the process. It's just such a complicated thing and we kind of put it to rest now."

Paxson said they discussed "parameters," but the sides "never got down to the nuts and bolts of it because there was never a deal to be done. That's the reality of it."

But Paxson was quoted in the Chicago Sun-Times Thursday as saying he could not rule out the possibility of reopening talks on Bryant.

"'Who knows?" he said. "'The reality now is it's done. There are a lot of people out there searching for information, and it becomes ridiculous half the time. I'm not going to separate fact from fiction because there's so much fiction out there."

Paxson expressed concern that the flurry of rumors surrounding Bryant would have an adverse affect on his team's focus and execution.

"It's like this every trade deadline, too," he said in the Sun-Times story. "People want to get a story, and they'll go to any limit. I didn't see myself quoted or anybody from the Lakers quoted. I wanted to try and go through this the right way. The fortunate thing is I know what really happened and [Lakers GM] Mitch Kupchak knows what really happened, and that's all that really matters."

Bryant drew some boos during introductions before the Lakers' season-opening 95-93 loss to Houston on Tuesday, after calling the front office a mess and asking to be traded during the offseason. The jeers turned to cheers as Bryant scored 18 of his 45 points in the fourth quarter to lead a comeback.

The trade deadline isn't until February, so it's possible talks between the Lakers and Bulls could resume.

"I think today sends a message that our guys don't have to worry about anything right now," Paxson said.

Then again, coach Scott Skiles wondered: "What's resolving anything in all sports until the trading deadline?"

"Just because this rumor at some point dies down, does that mean another one's not going to crop up in two weeks?" he asked. "It's ongoing, it's all the time. Now, this is one that involves a very, very high profile player, so I understand the extra attention on it."

With the rumors swirling, Chicago played a flat first half and was just as bad at the end in losing the season opener 112-103 at New Jersey on Wednesday. Just about every Bull's name has surfaced in rumors, and Luol Deng acknowledged the Kobe questions are wearing on him.

"I am," he said when asked if he's annoyed by them. "But you guys want to get to the bottom of it so I've just got to keep answering your questions."

Several issues stand in the way of a Bryant deal.


Bryant has a no-trade clause and can opt out in the summer 2009, although he has said he wouldn't mind playing in Chicago.

ESPN.com's Chris Sheridan, citing a source with knowledge of the trade talks, reported Wednesday that Bryant continually threatened to veto almost any deal in which Deng would be included. Bryant wants to be sure that the team he joins has enough talent remaining to compete for the NBA title.

Paxson does not want to gut his roster or part with Deng, who appeared to be on the verge of stardom last season.


Paxson and Bulls chairman Jerry Reinsdorf met with Bryant when he was a free agent in 2004. He wound up re-signing with the Lakers for seven years and $136.4 million, with that opt-out clause.

"He liked what he heard," Paxson said. "For that reason, he likes the Chicago Bulls, which is obviously flattering."

But he apparently won't be joining them in the near future.
I highlighted the part where it says Kobe threatened to veto a deal which included Deng, but there's nothing to be found anywhere on the innernets about an actual deal in place and Kobe exercising his no trade clause.

I imagine since namkcuR is aware of such a deal he can link to an article about it as I'm very curious as to what deal was agreed to. Plus I need to "get my facts straight".
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Old 12-27-2007, 10:05 AM   #305
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Yeah, make sure you know what you're typing, ya hoser.
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Old 12-27-2007, 10:12 AM   #306
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Quote:
Originally posted by namkcuR
The big problem with the Bulls was the roster. Lack of talent,

Yes, you were right Headache, the Wallace signing was a mistake.

Paxson's draft picks

When you have a team that doesn't have that much talent

To sum up, the roster is the biggest problem the Bulls have

But to say that Skiles didn't deserve his firing is just wrong.
fine... they both deserved to be fired.

but you seem to be making a big deal about how the roster is fundamentaly flawed (someone around here has been saying that for years, i wonder who that could be ). a flawed roster does not land on the coach, unless said coach is named isiah thomas. it lands on the person who put the pieces together... i.e. john paxson. paxson has done a terrible job as GM of this team.

he put together a ton of pieces, but that's just it... they're just pieces. there's no glue to bring it all together. the ben wallace signing was a horrid decision that could have been avoided simply by looking at his stat pattern. here's a guy who's entire game is based upon athleticism, because he has ZERO basketball ability, and might be the worst skilled player in the entire NBA. he's getting old, his athleticism is slipping. his stats went down in each of the two seasons prior to the Bulls signing him. it didn't take a genius to see that his slipping would continue. frankly, he sucks. he always has sucked, but he's such a freakish athlete and worked so damn hard that in the right system he was able to fit in perfectly. $16 million per?? that's worth paxson's firing alone, but i shall continue.

tyson chandler. he's a border line all star now. and he still makes less than ben wallace, 10 years his younger. gee, that really turned out to be a wise decision. the bulls gave up on a young player because of his lack of offensive ability in the low post, only to replace him with an old player with a lack of offensive ability in the low post. brilliant!

then look at the blessings the bulls have had in the draft, thanks to the man, the myth, the legend that is isiah thomas. they over pay to bring in a guy who's game is based entirely on athleticism in ben wallace. and who do they go out and draft then? a guy who's game is based entirely on athleticism in tyrus thomas. actually, allow me to correct myself. they draft lamarcus aldridge, a true offensive presence in the low post, and then TRADE him for tyrus thomas. what a deal that's been.

but that's okay, because they got a second chance to make right. they had another first round pick from the knicks! merry christmas! let's draft another "hustler" who has no real offensive post skills in joakim noah. oh the man's a genius. no one's put together such a collection of over-rated low post players who no skill since scott layden.

you talk about the fact that the bulls have a lot of the same parts. who's fault is that? ta da... the GM. they have a glutony of power forwards with very little offensive ability and streaky guards, none of whom, and that very much includes luol deng, has the chutzpah to be a #1 scorer in this league. they're all very good secondary players... none of them is a star. a leader. bulls fans should know about that better than anyone. scottie pippen was the ultimate secondary player. but scottie pippen alone couldn't ever win a championship. he needed to be the second fiddle to jordan to allow his true abilities to shine. same goes for deng. he fits the pippen role perfectly. only problem is he has no jordan to go along for the ride.

so let's just break it down, shall we? the bulls biggest problems as a team is a) no #1 option, and b) zero production from the low post, to the point where they actually miss p.j. brown.

hmm...

combined stats of ben wallace, joe smith, tyrus thomas and joakim noah. (note, 4 players)

23.2 ppg, 21.1 rebounds per game, 3.6 blocks per game.
combined salary for 2007/08 - $26.4 million.
remaining money left to be paid over length of contacts - $81.9 million
average age - 26.5

combined stats of tyson chandler and lamarcus aldridge (note, 2 players)
29.2 ppg, 19.5 rpg, 2.3 bpg
combined salary for 2007/08 - $15.3 million
remaining money left to be paid over length of contracts - $68 million
average age - 23.5

they are a flawed team. they have a lot of indians but no chiefs. and to top it off, thanks largely to the ben wallace signing, their lack of cap space handicaps them in making moves. yes, the bulls are sliding down that slippery knicks slope, much like i predicted they would the day they signed ben wallace a year and a half ago. enjoy, it's fun down here.
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Old 12-27-2007, 10:46 PM   #307
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If we would have drafted Aldridge, we would not even be discussing this. The problem with Skiles was he wouldn't even concede that his method of drive and kick wasn't as effective as using a post up player once in a while to open up the outside shot.

The ironic part of all this is that it took Aaron Gray to figure this out. He is the only back to the basket player on the team and it's funny, but when he is in, the offense has been playing better.

That said, what does Interim coach Pistol Pete Myers do in his first game vs. the Spurs? Gives Noah, Gray, Thomas and Sefalosha each about 5 minutes of play while the other "better" players play shitty D and lack-luster offense.

And Ben Wallace gets 5 rebounds. Eddy Curry can do that...we could have kept him and been better off...strange...

But don't throw Joe Smith in there. He's been doing more than what is expected of him. And Thomas/Noah just need to play...well...Thomas needs to be traded and Noah should just play. Wallace and Thomas are the problem. Laaaaaaaazy
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Old 12-28-2007, 09:11 AM   #308
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I was pretty impressed with Joe Smith in the couple of Bulls games I've seen.

Nice couple of wins in back2backs on the West Coast for the Celts. Not great teams by any means (though Seattle is playing better of late), but solid road W's. Pierce was really feeling it last night. Durant looks like a decent player...I said going in that he reminded me of Donyell Marshall, but I think he might end up being what people hoped Donyell would be...big difference.
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Old 12-29-2007, 03:27 PM   #309
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My youngest brother got a Kyle Korver jersey for Christmas.

The Sixers traded Korver today.
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Old 12-29-2007, 03:31 PM   #310
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Quote:
Originally posted by phillyfan26
My youngest brother got a Kyle Korver jersey for Christmas.

The Sixers traded Korver today.
Ouch.

When I saw the lakers hitting 75 by halftime i thought kobe would go over 81..
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Old 12-29-2007, 06:29 PM   #311
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Quote:
Originally posted by phillyfan26
My youngest brother got a Kyle Korver jersey for Christmas.

The Sixers traded Korver today.
Man I'm a total jinx for that...you'd think I'd just quit with jerseys already.

The good part though is I've actually got 4 jerseys of guys who were eventually re-acquired, which is kind of cool...Kevin Dineen, Ron Hextall, Carey Wilson, and Antoine Walker.
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Old 12-29-2007, 07:48 PM   #312
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One thing that really struck me while I was at the Mavs/Hawks game today:





You do the math.
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Old 12-29-2007, 09:55 PM   #313
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Quote:
Originally posted by CTU2fan


Man I'm a total jinx for that...you'd think I'd just quit with jerseys already.
I suggested he tape "FUTURE DRAFT PICK" over Korver's name and continue wearing it.
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Old 12-29-2007, 11:34 PM   #314
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One thing that really struck me while I was at the Mavs/Hawks game today:





You do the math.
Possibly.

Admiral? Admiral?!

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Old 12-30-2007, 03:42 AM   #315
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Celts play the Lakers tonight. Should be a good one.
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