NBA Basketball 2007-08: The Thread

[Got Philk?]

is it a good thing or a bad thing that all these players are being traded from the east to the west? I mean Pau, Shaq, Kidd; these are big name players leaving the East. Does this help the East take the next step to getting equal talent as the West?

p.s. I know Shaq is a big question mark. But he's still a big name.

edit: Pau wasn't traded from the East either....he is still in the west.

My post has lost credibility.

 

[CTU2fan]

What was that about shooting? I love watching Ray Allen shoot. LeBron may have won the MVP but Ray won that game.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

ray allen was the mvp. they gave it to lebron to further push some sort of image about how great he is and all.

the only part of the all star game that matters is the last 5-6 minutes, when they actually, ya know, try. allen dominated this part of the game.

 

[namkcuR]

It was the most enjoyable all-star game I've seen in a while...that said, it still doesn't hold a candle to some of the all-star games that were on ESPN Classic over the weekend.

Jesus.

Watching MJ, Ewing, Isiah, Scottie, Larry Johnson, young Shaq, Dominique on the same team vs Malone/Stockton, Barkley, Admiral, Hakeem, Drexler, Tim Hardaway, etc on the same team in 93?

Watching Bird, Dr.J, Isiah, Laimbeer, McHale, Bernard King, Moncreif, Parish, etc on the same team vs Magic, Kareem, Gervin, English, Walter Davis, Sampson, Dantley, etc on the same team in 84?

(You know, I had actually forgotten how fucking good Isiah was...Isiah the GM has made me forget Isiah the player.)

Watching MJ, Shaq, Pippen, Reggie, pre-injury Grant Hill, Ewing, Mourning, Rice etc vs Malone/Stockton, Barkley, Payton, Robinson, Hakeem, Dikembe, Drexler, Kemp, Richmond, etc on the same team in 96?



For me the more recent all-star games just don't compare.

I truly believe that the period from 1980-2000 will be considered the best there ever was.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

But you forget that J.J. Redick is superglued to the Magic bench.

i still don't get that... it seems to me that exactly what the magic need is a deep threat to take pressure off of howard, and one would think that with howard back there it would take pressure of the need for j.j. to be a great defender.

he's apparently asked to be traded a couple of times but the magic won't budge... you can't tell me that someone can possibly shoot as well as redick does and not find some niche' in the nba. it's unfathomable. trade him to a phoenix or san antonio or the lakers or even a team like toronto and i can bet ya that he'd be a significant role player off the bench, a la steve kerr.

ponderous. i suppose lights out shooting just doesn't mean as much as it used to.

and we wonder why we lose to greece.

 

[LMP]

i still don't get that... it seems to me that exactly what the magic need is a deep threat to take pressure off of howard, and one would think that with howard back there it would take pressure of the need for j.j. to be a great defender.

he's apparently asked to be traded a couple of times but the magic won't budge... you can't tell me that someone can possibly shoot as well as redick does and not find some niche' in the nba. it's unfathomable. trade him to a phoenix or san antonio or the lakers or even a team like toronto and i can bet ya that he'd be a significant role player off the bench, a la steve kerr.

ponderous. i suppose lights out shooting just doesn't mean as much as it used to.

and we wonder why we lose to greece.

It's the one thing I hate about Ron Jeremy and his rotations. The trade for Maurice Evans/Brian Cook completely buried Redick into the 4th guard spot, probably because he doesn't play "good enough defense." That's bullshit.

They need to get rid of Carlos Arroyo, another guard, and Pat Garrity's contract - get a friggin' big guy to put next to Dwight (maybe Chris Wilcox, Kurt Thomas, Joe Smith, something...), and let Redick fucking play. If not, then trade Redick so that he gets a chance to play. My dad and I start "Bring in J.J." chants toward the end of every Magic home game, too.

He's arguably the 2nd or 3rd most popular player on the team, behind Dwight or Hedo Turkoglu, and never gets to play. Egregious... simply egregious.

 

[impy13]

When I was younger, I used to make Mavs jerseys for the playoffs with light and dark blue markers. I had printed off the right fonts for the letters and numbers in order to get the numbers and names perfect. I'd get the DALLAS on there in dark blue, the number below in light blue, and color the piping light blue. They looked pretty damn good.

I made these jerseys out of wife beaters.



Welcome back, J Kidd.

 

[CTU2fan]

wife beater J Kidd.

Is there a player in any sport who's skated by an off-court issue like that more easily than Kidd has? I can't think of anyone...usually with a situation like that the media puts a black mark on them, in ink, and it never comes off. With Kidd the medai almost completely ignored it.

As for Redick I pretty much completely agree, an outside threat like him would be a nice compliment to Howard. I don't see why he can't get minutes...he basically never seems to play. I mean, Eddie House is probably Boston's 4th guard and he plays more than Redick does...and I don't see why Redick can't/couldn't at least be Orlando's Eddie House...

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Is there a player in any sport who's skated by an off-court issue like that more easily than Kidd has? I can't think of anyone...usually with a situation like that the media puts a black mark on them, in ink, and it never comes off. With Kidd the medai almost completely ignored it.

he got it pretty good when it first happened, but that was all the way back in 2001. bob ryan also had a bit of a run in over the incident when the nets and celtics played in the playoffs in 2003.

it was a one time incident, he did the crime/did the time, and has since moved on. we can't hold what appears to have been an isolated incident over someone's head forever.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

great move by the spurs last night to get kurt thomas for a bag of donuts.

in phoenix... as long as shaq doesn't physicaly break down it's going to work. when he fully understands their offense? they're going to be unbelievably dangerous. don't know if they'll ever stop anyone, but they'll put up 120 points per game, which makes me happy

high quality performance by the knicks last night... nothing like a 40 points loss to the 76ers, being down 50 at one point, to get things going.

 

[namkcuR]

The Wallace era in Chicago is over.

In a three team, ten player deal, the Bulls have acquired Drew Gooden, Larry Hughes, Cedric Simmons, and Shannon Brown, the Cavs have acquired Ben Wallace, Joe Smith, Wally S, and Delonte West, and the Supersonics have acquired Adrian Griffen, Ira Newble, and Donyell Marshall.

 

[LMP]

Eh.

 

[namkcuR]

I don't know...Gooden, Hughes, and Shannon Brown for a guy who was doing nothing for us while getting paid a ridiculous amount of money for it seems like a good deal right now.

 

[LMP]

Too little, too late for the Bulls - they still don't have a go-to guy and aren't any closer to having one; the Sonics are just dumping salary, so they don't really factor into anything; the Cavs got rid of expiring contracts to get an aging, undersized center, Joe Smith, a borderline washed up Szczerbiak, and a decent combo guard who fills the same role as another player (Gibson)

With a frontcourt of Ilgauskas (my friend Kenny calls him "Polio"), Sideshow Bob, and Wallace's Corpse, what are they gonna do against Toronto, Orlando, Boston, or even Detroit? Hope LeBron drives the lane and picks up the foul every time?

I don't know - I wish the Magic made a fucking trade, but making the playoffs is just good enough for them then.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

isiah thomas brokered that deal.

only he could make a trade in which 11 players change teams and not a single thing is accomplished, other than one awful contract being traded for another.

ponderous.

 

[namkcuR]

isiah thomas brokered that deal.

only he could make a trade in which 11 players change teams and not a single thing is accomplished, other than one awful contract being traded for another.

ponderous.

What do you mean nothing was accomplished? Gooden and Hughes each individually outproduce Ben Wallace, and Gooden's contract is shorter than Wallace's, while Hughes' contract is the same length but for less $. And Shannon Brown could be a decent bench player. It won't make the Bulls a great team all of a sudden, but will give Tyrus Thomas and Jokaim Noah more PT and gets rid of Wallace's attitude problems and nonproductiveness.

Wallace, while declining and inconsistant, will still be a bolster to the Cavs' interior defense, while Wally is a good fit to the open shots created by LeBron's double-teams, and West is a good fit at PG.

The Sonics were just dumping contracts, but the Cavs got better and the Bulls got better(not by a great length, but better), so I don't see how you can say it accomplished nothing.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

What do you mean nothing was accomplished? Gooden and Hughes each individually outproduce Ben Wallace, and Gooden's contract is shorter than Wallace's, while Hughes' contract is the same length but for less $. And Shannon Brown could be a decent bench player. It won't make the Bulls a great team all of a sudden, but will give Tyrus Thomas and Jokaim Noah more PT and gets rid of Wallace's attitude problems and nonproductiveness.

Wallace, while declining and inconsistant, will still be a bolster to the Cavs' interior defense, while Wally is a good fit to the open shots created by LeBron's double-teams, and West is a good fit at PG.

The Sonics were just dumping contracts, but the Cavs got better and the Bulls got better(not by a great length, but better), so I don't see how you can say it accomplished nothing.

the sonics don't matter in this deal... all they're doing is dropping salary.

wally's an egomaniac who's worn out his welcome everywhere he's been. and if you've ever actually had any contact with the man, you'd understand instantly why he gets traded often. his sister's hot though, so i suppose that's a plus.

larry hughes contract is still 12+ million per, making him untradable except for another awful contract, and his game is very similar to that of ben gordon's. and thabo sefolosha is now bound to see less time.

drew gooden sucks.

anderson varejo is already better than ben wallace and younger and cheaper. but varejo's a terrible offensive player in his own right. now you're gonna put wallace and varejo on the court together? ya think wally's gonna get open shots? why would anybody come off of wally to double when you have two offensive bummity bum bum bummaroonies on the court to pick and choose from?

if getting tyrus thomas and joakim noah more playing time works for you, then hey... enjoy.

overall this was nothing more than a lot of mediocre players at high prices changing uniforms.

 

[CTU2fan]

I'm a bit surprised the Knicks didn't do anything. All the Isiah-mocking aside there is talent on that roster; you'd think somebody might want to add a Randolph or even a Starbury. Maybe Zeke wanted too much...

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

I'm a bit surprised the Knicks didn't do anything. All the Isiah-mocking aside there is talent on that roster

umm...

 

[CTU2fan]

There is. If Q Richardson lost 40 pounds and everybody played hard all the time they're a playoff team easy...problem is, they don't play hard so they get blown out by the Sixers.

 

[Hewson]

overall this was nothing more than a lot of mediocre players at high prices changing uniforms.

I must agree. In fact Cleveland, who is the only playoff team of the 3 has puzzled me by making this move. I feel they got worse, not better...Gooden can at least score, Wallace's D won't make up for his total lack of O, and as you state Varejo can basically be Ben Wallace, including funky hairstyle, so why do you need 2 of those guys. Do they think Lebron can average 69ppg? Cause thats what it will now take for the Cavs to eclipse 80 points most nights.

 

[CTU2fan]

The only part that really makes sense to me is Delonte if they're worried about losing ground with Boobie Gibson out. I suppose they might be banking on Big Ben bringing the elusive intangibles/veteran leadership thing...and the not insignificant possibility it was a move just to placate the needy Lebron and his never-ending cries for help.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

There is. If Q Richardson lost 40 pounds and everybody played hard all the time they're a playoff team easy...problem is, they don't play hard so they get blown out by the Sixers.

umm...

i will give you this. yes, they do have talent.

problem is there is a large difference between "talent" and "good." everyone in the league, with the exception of isiah thomas, knows that guys like randolph and marbury are team cancers that destroy locker rooms and that eddy curry's heart issues were no big deal because he has no heart to begin with. no one wants them.

 

[CTU2fan]

Do you think there's a chance that any of those guys would be valuable contributors on a team with a solid leadership in place? Take Rasheed Wallace and Detroit...he came with a certain rep and he's gotten it somewhat under control (and yeah I know he still gets his share of T's). Or (I'm dating myself here) Dennis Johnson. He came with a lot of baggage but that Celtics locker room brought out his best. If I had to guess I'd say Starbury is probably a lost cause, but maybe guys like Randolph and Curry could get their act together in the right environment.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Do you think there's a chance that any of those guys would be valuable contributors on a team with a solid leadership in place? Take Rasheed Wallace and Detroit...he came with a certain rep and he's gotten it somewhat under control (and yeah I know he still gets his share of T's). Or (I'm dating myself here) Dennis Johnson. He came with a lot of baggage but that Celtics locker room brought out his best. If I had to guess I'd say Starbury is probably a lost cause, but maybe guys like Randolph and Curry could get their act together in the right environment.

here is the key difference.

dennis johnson was an nba finals mvp before he ever set foot in boston.

rasheed wallace? yes it was surprising... but there's a few things here.
1) he played for a winning coach in college, going to the final four
2) he was the leading scorer on two western conference finalists
3) larry brown's north carolina roots played a key role in getting him under control for that half season
4) one could argue that if not for kobe bryant rasheed the pistons never would have won a title in the first place
5) one could also argue that rasheed has cost the pistons further success, most notably last year.


there are some on the knicks roster that i believe could be succesful in the right place... crawford, richardson, jeffries, collins, jones, robinson and especially lee and rose.

randolph, curry and marbury? no.

i mean maybe... MAYBE randolph if he's in the perfect situation, like the spurs. the other two? no chance.

just for shits and giggles...
zach randolph in 7 seasons has a .432 winning percentage and zero playoff series victories and 2 winning seasons.

eddy curry in 8 seasons has a .331 winning percentage and zero playoff series victories 1 winning season.

stephon marbury in 11 seasons has a .399 winning percentage and zero playoff series victories 2 winning seasons.

so between the three of them they have a career record of 777-1233, a .387 winning percentage, 5 winning seasons out of a total of 26 played, and zero playoff victories.

for them.

 

[namkcuR]

So, apparently the Knicks and Bucks were close to making the following deal:

Knicks Trade:
Zach Randolph
Fred Jones

Bucks Trade:
Charlie Bell
Bobby Simmons
Dan Gadzuric

Help me. I don't understand this. I really don't.

Charlie Bell has a ways to go.

Bobby Simmons used to 'have potential' but it appears not to have panned out, and he is decidely average, at best.

Dan Gadzuric sucks.

Simmons is a sort of bad contract and Gadzuric is a very bad contract.

This trade would accomplish nothing for the Knicks but GIVING the Bucks Randolph and taking back two average-at-best players and one bad player and two bad contracts.

And why would the Bucks do it? They were supposed to be all about developing Yi and they have Bogut and Charlie Villueneva too, why would they create such a frontcourt glut that would only stunt Yi's development while not really making the team any better?

But back to the Knicks!

I can't fathom why they do this! They get nothing in return! No youth(other than Bell who may or may not be something), no picks, just average-at-best talent and bad contracts! It's astonishing!

What a terrible trade for both sides(had it went down).

 

[Got Philk?]

I actually think that Wally will be better for the Cavs than Hughes was. That alone will help I feel.

 

[LMP]

Isn't Bell having statistically the worst season ever for a shooter?

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

But back to the Knicks!

I can't fathom why they do this!

what is there to fathom? bad GMs make bad trades (or at least try to).


shaq dominated the boards last night, and you can already see how his mere presence on the court is going to open things up for amare stoudamire.

phoenix could be quite dangerous going forward.

 

[Hewson]

I actually think that Wally will be better for the Cavs than Hughes was. That alone will help I feel.

Have you ever actually watched Wally play for any stretch.
Can't create his own shot, terrible defender, he'll hit a few open shots if they triple LeBron, but thats about it.