NBA Basketball 2006-07: The Thread Part III

The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Status
Not open for further replies.
i suppose i might feel differently if my team had gotten screwed by the lottery... twice... but i love it, and i would be quite sad to see it go away.

i even want it to go back to when they drew for each spot in the lottery, not just the top three.

other than the constant screwing of the celtics... has the lottery really produced anything bad? would we really have been better off with all the top players in the draft going to the inept horrid franchises that were the clippers before adn now the hawks? they just fuck things up no matter where they pick.

i love it.
 
and secondly... danny ainge and doc rivers screwed each and every paying fan by purposely tanking this past season in order to get a better draft position, even though they knew full well there was no gaurantee of either oden or durant. they deserve everything they get (or didn't get).

the fans? i feel sorry for them... but not that sorry. i suppose they can go off and cry into one of their 16 nba championship banners. :wink:
 
it appears as the suns have started their offseason on a more relaxing note...

leinartbdayparty.jpg
 
Headache in a Suitcase said:

other than the constant screwing of the celtics... has the lottery really produced anything bad? would we really have been better off with all the top players in the draft going to the inept horrid franchises that were the clippers before adn now the hawks? they just fuck things up no matter where they pick.

How many times since the lottery began has the team with the worst record actually received the number one pick? Twice, maybe? I don't know it off the top of my head, but it's something crazy like that. I don't think it's worth it.

The ironic thing about the NBA going this route is that it really has screwed themselves. What just happened tonight? The West just got that much better while the East will resume its usually suckiness, thereby guaranteeing that ratings and attendance in the East stay in the gutter.

As you always like to point out, the NBA Eastern Conference - it's faaaaaantastic.
 
phanan said:


The ironic thing about the NBA going this route is that it really has screwed themselves. What just happened tonight? The West just got that much better while the East will resume its usually suckiness, thereby guaranteeing that ratings and attendance in the East stay in the gutter.

Not even the west, the Pacific Northwest.
If it had been the Lakers or Houston getting 1 and/or 2, that wouldn't be so bad for the league, but what TV ratings are gonna come from Seattle vs Portland matchups?
 
Headache in a Suitcase said:


and whoever atlanta picks will suck. they could have won, and oden would suck. the franchise is cursed.
No Atlanta isn't cursed, its run by inept individuals.
Cursed is what has happened here since 1986.
Its like some sort of karmic retribution for Red pulling off deals like Parish and McHale for Joe Barely Cares or Dennis Johnson for Rick (bath)Robey...since the last title in 1986, the Celts have had(in chronological order):
1. Len Bias drop dead the day after being the #2 overall pick and presumed heir to Bird's perch as the top player on a top team.
2. Reggie Lewis drop dead on the practice floor
3. Rick Pitino
4. The Tim Duncan lottery (the story of the 2 dry runs where the Celts would have gotten picks 1 & 2 and then 1 & 3 before the actual lottery gave them 3 and 6 is mind blowing)
5. Rick Pitino trading away future finals MVP Chauncey Billups during his rookie season cause he was impatient.
6. Rick Pitino
7. Rick Pitino
8. Dennis Johnson dying young.
9. This year's draft lottery serving (which I though might have been the curse's end since red passed away last fall but no.)
10. Did I mention Rick Pitino?
 
phanan said:


How many times since the lottery began has the team with the worst record actually received the number one pick? Twice, maybe? I don't know it off the top of my head, but it's something crazy like that. I don't think it's worth it.

The ironic thing about the NBA going this route is that it really has screwed themselves. What just happened tonight? The West just got that much better while the East will resume its usually suckiness, thereby guaranteeing that ratings and attendance in the East stay in the gutter.

As you always like to point out, the NBA Eastern Conference - it's faaaaaantastic.

:hmm: that's about the best point you've made... the east gets served yet again.

but then again, if it was, in fact, done completley based on record, one of them still would have gone to the western conference 'cause memphis had the worst record.
 
More Boston bad luck

By Dan Wetzel, Yahoo! Sports
May 22, 2007

The Portland Trail Blazers trotted out Brandon Roy at the NBA draft lottery and right then and there maybe the Boston Celtics should have known they were doomed.

There are a million reasons, a million mistakes that put the Celts in this situation, every last one of their green eggs in the lottery basket, Greg Oden, Kevin Durant or bust for the once-proudest franchise in sports.

But Roy was the most recent reason, the reigning rookie of the year, the good guy, cornerstone player that the Blazers stole last June in a deal that began when they acquired Boston's first-round pick in exchange for Sebastian Telfair, Sebastian Telfair's gun collection, Theo Ratliff and a second-round selection.

That was a fleecing, the kind Red Auerbach used to pull off. Only now it keeps happening to Boston, where Danny Ainge's deals are so often dumber than those David Blaine commercials.

With no Roy (but with Telfair), the Celtics stunk from the start of the season, which led them to tank games to get a shot at Oden or Durant, which forced them to keep overmatched Doc Rivers (you can't fire a guy for losing when you asked him to lose, can you?), which stunted their players' development, which left their loss-weary fans holding their breath for a franchise-saving ping-pong ball to bounce the right way.

Instead, it bounced to Brandon Roy.

Boston is doomed. It all broke bad Tuesday in Secaucus, and across Celtics Nation this was a sucker punch to the stomach.

Greg Oden isn't walking through that door, to paraphrase a past franchise disaster. Kevin Durant isn't walking through that door.

Somehow, Boston wound up fifth, the worst possible outcome. It was three times as likely to get in the top two, but that meant nothing to that shocked Celtics fan on ESPN, mouth agape in horror.

Of course, around the rest of the league, it was a moment of schadenfreude.

You either loved this or hated it. You either wondered how the Celtics could be so cursed or wondered why it took so long.

Boston won 16 NBA championships, mostly because of Auerbach routinely ripping off other teams with trades. He picked up Bill Russell in part by promising another owner he'd get the Ice Capades to visit his building. He got Bob Cousy when another team folded. He drafted Larry Bird a year ahead of time in a loophole that was quickly closed. He landed Kevin McHale and Robert Parish for Joe Barry Carroll.

It was unreal, the luck of the Irish.

Which is why so many opposing fans are rejoicing in its continued disappearance, so many enjoying that a team with a 5.3-percent chance wound up where Boston should have been, smiling at the thought that the Celtics now have to hope Yi Jianlian falls to them.

Boston getting screwed in the lottery was some kind of poetic justice for many. In terms of karma, the Celtics – not to mention fellow tankers Memphis and Milwaukee – have only themselves to blame – the basketball gods, if not Red himself, disgusted with their blatant non-efforts.

But this is what the present reality is for Boston, a franchise that just two months after winning its 16th title in 1986 had draft pick Len Bias die of a drug overdose. Things haven't been the same ever since. Just seven years later, another young star, Reggie Lewis, died during a practice session.

Then there's been a series of horrible trades and bizarre signings. The Boston Garden got demolished. The coaches have been mostly terrible, the players often worse. Outside of a brief sign of life in the early part of this decade, there's been little to cheer. The Celtics have fallen into irrelevance both locally and nationally.

And we haven't even mentioned the last lottery loss in 1997, when Tim Duncan turned into Ron Mercer and Rick Pitino.

And now this.

At this stage, for Celts fans, what's left? Oden or Durant were the saviors, the super talents that could eventually lift the franchise through the mediocrity of Ainge and Rivers.

Now Boston is stuck with the hand it has – a bad team, a wasted prime of Paul Pierce, a coach who needs to go, a boss in Ainge still living off his rep as a player and, what, once snagging Al Jefferson in the middle of the first round?

"There's other ways to get lucky," Ainge tried to reassure fans Tuesday. "There's other ways to get guys in the draft. Nobody thought Paul Pierce was going to be as good as he is when we got him at 10."

It was all shell-shocked spin at that point, not that Ainge isn't correct. You can get great players later in the top 10. Just a year ago, after all, he could have even gotten Brandon Roy.
 
No doubt the Celtics organization has shot itself in the foot plenty of times over the last decade, but you have to wonder how much of that would have happened if things had gone the way they should have gone 10 years ago.
 
If it makes you feel better, the Bulls are going to draft Joakim Noah. Mark my words...


Hey, if the Celtics can get Hibbert next year, he could end up being the Bill Russell of our time and have a huge rivalry vs. Oden. THink about it...:hmm:
 
Got Philk? said:
If it makes you feel better, the Bulls are going to draft Joakim Noah. Mark my words...


Hey, if the Celtics can get Hibbert next year, he could end up being the Bill Russell of our time and have a huge rivalry vs. Oden. THink about it...:hmm:

even the most optimistic person in the world wouldn't believe for one secont that dr. hibbert will be good enough to scratch the ballsack of bill russell :wink:
 
Got Philk? said:

Hey, if the Celtics can get Hibbert next year, he could end up being the Bill Russell of our time and have a huge rivalry vs. Oden. THink about it...:hmm:
I think Hibbert will benefit from his senior year at G'Town and be a pretty good NBA center...but the Bill Russell of our time....not unless you mean:

bill_russell_autograph.jpg
 
If anyone is going to be anything near the Bill Russell of our time, it will be Dwight Howard.

Yessssssssss, Brian Hill was fired by the Magic. Huzzah!
 
Last edited:
I really liked this article about a potential Phoenix-Boston trade:

Celtic Salvage Operation

What do you do when a dream turns into a nightmare with the bounce of a ping-pong ball? Irrational or not, all of Boston thought they were getting a top two pick and riding off into the sunset. (In fact, it seems that to a man, Boston fans were somehow convinced that they would nab exactly the #2 pick and that it would be Kevin Durant; it was kind of weird how specific it all got.)

Now? They are sitting on a #5 pick that feels like purgatory. Not only is it a letdown, but it doesn't really match value with need in this case. Either Brandan Wright or Al Horford should be there at 5, but those guys play the same position as their best young player, Al Jefferson. Corey Brewer might be around, but plays the same position (pretty much) as Paul Pierce. Yi Jianlin is intriguing, but mainly because he's a mortal lock to be the worst All-Star starter in NBA history next season thanks to China's domination of the fan vote (credit my buddy Josh Stump for leading the way on that observation). Plus, even if he does wind up being good, he's a few years away. Doc Rivers and Danny Ainge absolutely will not be around to experience a "good Yi season," that is for sure. So what on earth should they do?

I will tell you: find the one team in the NBA that thinks the #5 pick is fabulous. This requires a few things. First, that team must have a certain perspective; one that never at any time thought Oden or Durant was a possible outcome. Second, that team must be desperate to move established players for cheap rookies, purely for luxury tax purposes. Third, that team must have a good player they are willing to trade, maybe even for slightly bizarre reasons.

In case you haven't figured it out by now, that team is the Phoenix Suns.

Think about it. Phoenix is obsessed with getting under the luxury tax. There have been reports all season that it is an either/or Armageddon situation with Marion and Amare. And they were making all kinds of plans regarding a potential pick in the 4-7 range, because that is where the Atlanta trade would have landed them. They are probably in love with a guy like Wright and are currently plotting how to get him. They are probably trolling for a way to trade Marion without inciting the entire fan base. The Celtics, in possession of the #5 pick, some young, cheap assets, and a big contract set to expire in 2008, can swoop in and give Phoenix the perfect out.

Here is one way the deal could go down:

Phoenix Gives Up: Shawn Marion, Marcus Banks, and the #29 pick

Boston Gives Up: the #5 pick, Theo Ratliff's expiring $12 million contract (in 2008), Delonte West, Kendrick Perkins, and their first round pick in 2008

[Update: I'm starting to think Boston could get this done without giving up the future first rounder. So feel free to consider it with or without the 2008 pick.]


I know this looks less-than-awesome for Phoenix on paper, but consider everything that it accomplishes. First, it alleviates this supposed logjam with Marion and Amare. If you believe the reports, these guys struggle to coexist, plus they both make a ton of money on a team that has an owner unwilling to pay the tax. Someone has to go, either this year or next. Maybe Phoenix can get a better player for Marion, but it is hard to see them gaining more depth, youth, and financial flexibility. The #5 pick could net them a very exciting young big man, as mentioned above. I happen to believe that Wright and Horford are going to be sweet NBA players and remember, those guys (or Yi or Noah or whoever) presented a very exciting "best case scenario" about 12 hours ago for Phoenix. The Suns also get their precious luxury tax relief 12 months from now. Their financial situation wouldn't change much next year, because in order to trade Marion under the cap rules, they have to bring pretty much equal salary back over. But Ratliff is coming off the books at the end of next season and would bring them well under the luxury tax threshold.

The Ratliff contract does even more than save Robert Sarver money though. It also allows Phoenix to draft a foreign player at #24 and then stash him overseas until the finances allow them to bring him back over. (By the way, let me pause here and say how much I hate the luxury tax. It penalizes a team for getting good players who eventually demand larger paychecks. I hate it with a passion that is a little frightening.) PLUS, it would make Phoenix a big-time player at the trade deadline next year. If Sarver had a change of heart next winter and decided a title would be worth the extra dollars, he could turn Ratliff's contract and his fistful of draft picks into a legit stud at the deadline.

Phoenix would also get some nice pieces back from Boston. Delonte West could spell Steve Nash, hit mid-range jumpers, and play tough defense off the bench, all for just over a million dollars a year. Kendrick Perkins could give them frontcourt depth and some Diop-like defense on Duncan, for the price tag of $4 million per (when his extension kicks in next year). Basically, they would be swapping the worthless Marcus Banks for the potentially valuable Perkins (as a sort of transaction tax on Boston). Plus, they would have Atlanta's and Boston's first round picks next year, which could conservatively project to a top-10 and a top-20.

The net result for Phoenix is that they would have Nash, Amare, Raja Bell, and Barbosa as the core of the team, with Boris Diaw, Kurt Thomas, Brandan Wright (or whoever they take at #5), Delonte West, and Kendrick Perkins rounding out the nine-man rotation. That is still a really great team, with far more depth, versatility, and roster flexibility. (Not to mention a team set up to receive an influx of up to four first rounders - their own, Boston's, Atlanta's, and the foreign guy at #24 this year - at a time whey they can finally dole out some paychecks.)

As for Boston, they would have to bring Marcus Banks back, but that is required to make the deal work. But the Celtics would gain a star in Marion that would help them win right now and allow them to roll out a pretty nice starting lineup of Rajon Rondo, Paul Pierce, Ryan Gomes, Shawn Marion, and Al Jefferson. You'd have to think that Pierce/Marion/Jefferson would be the best trio in the East. Plus, Boson would be trimming down the rotation, which is a must with Doc Rivers on the bench, AND they would still have the #29 and #32 picks with which to work in a very deep draft (how about Morris Almond and Sean Williams?).

This feels like a no-brainer for Boston and normally, they would never be able to pull off this kind of trade for an all-league type player. But it seems like Phoenix has a perfect storm situation that would actually make this a good deal for them, rather than the mediocre-to-crappy deal it would normally be.

If nothing else, Danny Ainge needs to get on the phone and give it a shot. Danny and Doc didn't get bailed out by the ping-pong balls, but maybe if they play their cards right, they can dig themselves out of this mess.

http://wisinsider.blogspot.com/2007/05/celtic-salvage-operation.html
 
LemonMacPhisto said:
I really liked this article about a potential Phoenix-Boston trade:



http://wisinsider.blogspot.com/2007/05/celtic-salvage-operation.html
No way the Celts make that deal, Ratliff's expiring contract and the #5 pick are valuable commodities and frankly should be all they would consider giving up for Marion if so inclined.

Throwing in West, Perkins, next year's #1 and being forced to take on dead weight like Banks... no friggin' way.

Who came up with this trade scenario...Mike D'antoni.
 
Yeah, I agree, but I liked how the writer planned out the entire scenario in a way that seemed at least somewhat believeable.

If the Celtics were giving up anyone, it would be Telfair and Ratliff for a vet. If the Sonics draft Durant, which they probably will, they could pull a sign and trade with the Celts. I don't know, but they need to do something. There are so many pieces they could work with in trades, but Danny Ainge seems too reluctant to use any of them.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom