NBA Basketball 2006-07: The Thread

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I just hope Billy King doesn't screw up with these picks. Chances are quite high it happens.
 
I'm hearing that Larry Brown could return to the Sixers.

Billy King is not that fucking stupid, is he? After what happened in NY, WHO in their right mind would hire LB ever again?

Why will people not see the man for what he is - a greedy, power-hungry, disloyal, money-grubbing, stubborn, egomaniacal, self-centered self-righteous piece of you-know-what - ?
 
phillyfan26 said:
Larry Brown would be absolutely perfect for the Sixers. I hope he comes back.
Click to expand...

You can't be serious.

The guy is a backstabber. He doesn't give a shit about anything but his own bottom line. Every team he goes to, he ends up breaking their heart. You've already been the victim once. He just up and decides he's bored, creates some drama/melodrama to either get himself fired or create a situation where he has a reason to resign, and then leaves. He won't play rookies or youngins. Seriously. If you had two SFs on your team - Dwight Howard and PJ Brown - LB would give PJ the start because PJ's been around much longer and knows how to play 'the right way', whatever that means anymore.

The guy is not worth it. It shocks me that a Sixers fan who has already lived through the hell that is a Larry Brown Tenure wants to do it again.
 
Dwight plays Center and maybe the Power Forward spot. :huh:

Larry Brown's not a bad coach, but if he coaches the Sixers again he can't bench every player under 25 right?

Wouldn't it just be Joe Smith and the Assistant Coaches at that point?
 
LemonMacPhisto said:
Dwight plays Center and maybe the Power Forward spot. :huh:

Larry Brown's not a bad coach, but if he coaches the Sixers again he can't bench every player under 25 right?

Wouldn't it just be Joe Smith and the Assistant Coaches at that point?
Click to expand...

I meant PF, I really did. I was going to compare LeBron to an older SF but in the moment I couldn't think of an old fundemental-style SF to compare LeBron to, so I did PFs instead, but I had already typed SF and forgot to change it. My bad.

Anyway, Larry Brown is not going to change. I can't stand the guy, that much is obvious.
 
Ah, it's okay, easy mistake to make.

All I know is if Doc Rivers still has a job in the NBA, Larry Brown should coach somewhere.
 
Pierce out minimum of 2-3 weeks, maybe longer with a stress reaction (whatever that means) in the foot.

This would be a good opportunity to drop right back into the thick of the Oden sweepstakes (stupid 5 game win streak really hurt).
 
namkcuR said:
I'm hearing that Larry Brown could return to the Sixers.

Billy King is not that fucking stupid, is he? After what happened in NY, WHO in their right mind would hire LB ever again?

Why will people not see the man for what he is - a greedy, power-hungry, disloyal, money-grubbing, stubborn, egomaniacal, self-centered self-righteous piece of you-know-what - ?
Click to expand...

someone who wants their veteran basketball team to get over the hump.

while i don't agree that brown would be good for the 76ers with so many young players... if i had a veteran team who couldn't get over the hump i'd hire him in a heartbeat.

all i know is two things... before coming to new york, larry brown has turned around every team he's ever been associated with... and isiah thomas has destroyed everything he's been associated with.

did larry brown use the knicks to collect a big pay day? yea... he did. he used isiah and dolan for the absolute tools that they are. was that his original intention when he signed with new york? no... i think it was to drive isiah out the door because he knew full well that isiah was, in fact, a tool. but upon discovery that the owner was an even bigger tool who was more likely to side with isiah over the hall of fame coach, he sandbagged it.

do i blame him? not one iota. larry saw the writing on the wall, just like pat riley and jeff van gundy before him.

namkcuR said:
The guy is not worth it. It shocks me that a Sixers fan who has already lived through the hell that is a Larry Brown Tenure wants to do it again.
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larry brown took allen iverson to the finals... nobody else has been able to get him out of the first round. it's clear you dislike the man... but you're using your dislike to seriously underestimate his coaching ability.
 
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Headache in a Suitcase said:
larry brown took allen iverson to the finals... nobody else has been able to get him out of the first round. it's clear you dislike the man... but you're using your dislike to seriously underestimate his coaching ability.
Click to expand...

I don't think I'm underestimating him.

The championship and finals appearance with Detroit happened because he walked into a team that Joe Dumars and RICK CARLISLE built, a team that had been getting progressively better and was already poised to go for the title. I said in 2004, and I will continue to say, that that Detroit team would've won the championship that year with LB OR with Rick Carlisle. The fact is, Detroit played against a Lakers team that was literally falling apart before our eyes. I don't for one minute believe that LB did anything with Detroit that Rick Carlisle couldn't have done.

The finals appearance with Philadelphia was pure fluke. It was the result of a combination of two things: First, the Eastern Conference that year was as terrible as I have EVER seen it, and THAT is saying something. Second, Iverson wouldn't let them lose. The Carter/Davis-led Raptors and Allen/Big Dog/Cassell-led Bucks of that year both took the Sixers to seven games before losing, and both teams should have won their respective series'. Outside of Iverson, that Sixers team got completely outplayed by every team it played, but Iverson was so amazing that year that he would will the team to victory, and that's exactly what happened against the Raptors and the Bucks. At the brink of defeat, Iverson would always score 50 and bail them out. Once they got the finals, the Lakers destroyed them outside of a tight Game 1. Outside of that season, the LB-led Sixers were a mediocre team.

The back-to-back ECF appearances with the Pacers were actually legit. LB had walked into a team that had a bunch of players that suited his style perfectly; Reggie, the Davis's, Mark Jackson, Chuck Person, Herb Williams, etc. Other than that, I have to say this is the only success of LB's NBA career that I give him any real credit for.

That's not much.

Look at his season-by-season finishes in the NBA:

1976-1977 Denver 50-32 Lost in first round
1977-1978 Denver 48-34 Lost in second round
1978-1979 Denver 28-25 Did not qualify
1981-1982 New Jersey 44-38 Lost in first round
1982-1983 New Jersey 47-29 did not qualify
1988-1989 San Antonio 21-61 did not qualify
1989-1990 San Antonio 56-26 Lost in second round
1990-1991 San Antonio 55-27 Lost in first round
1991-1992 San Antonio 21-17 (Bolted town mid-season)
1991-1992 Los Angeles Clippers 23-12 Lost in first round
1992-1993 Los Angeles Clippers 41-41 Lost in first round
1993-1994 Indiana 47-35 Lost in ECF
1994-1995 Indiana 52-30 Lost in ECF
1995-1996 Indiana 52-30 Lost in first round
1996-1997 Indina 39-43 Did not qualify
1997-1998 Philadelphia 31-51 did not qualify
1998-1999 Philadelphia 28-22 Lost in second round
1999-2000 Philadelphia 49-33 Lost in second round
2000-2001 Philadelphia 56-26 Lost in finals
2001-2002 Philadelphia 43-39 Lost in first round
2002-2003 Philadelphia 48-34 Lost in second round
2003-2004 Detroit 54-28 Won championship
2004-2005 Detroit 54-28 Lost in finals
2005-2006 New York 23-59 did not qualify

In 23 full seasons coaching in the NBA, LB's teams have had the following finishes:

6 DNQs
7 first round losses
5 second round losses
2 conference finals lossses
2 finals losses
1 championship

In 23 full seasons coaching in the NBA, Larry Brown's teams have gotten past the second round of the playoffs only 5 times. 18 times, Larry Brown's teams have lost in the first or second round of the playoffs or not made the playoffs at all.

That means that 78% of Larry Brown's teams have been no better than second-round teams, while only 22% of his teams - less than a quarter - have made it past the second round.

He hasn't had THAT much success in the NBA.

Everybody keeps saying, 'yeah, he has a huge ego and is very high maintanance, but it's worth it because wherever he goes he wins'. But that's not even true.

You say that LB's consistant success makes his bullshit worthwhile, but I contend that LB's success has been anything but consistant.
 
namkcuR said:
You can't be serious.

The guy is a backstabber. He doesn't give a shit about anything but his own bottom line. Every team he goes to, he ends up breaking their heart. You've already been the victim once. He just up and decides he's bored, creates some drama/melodrama to either get himself fired or create a situation where he has a reason to resign, and then leaves. He won't play rookies or youngins. Seriously. If you had two SFs on your team - Dwight Howard and PJ Brown - LB would give PJ the start because PJ's been around much longer and knows how to play 'the right way', whatever that means anymore.

The guy is not worth it. It shocks me that a Sixers fan who has already lived through the hell that is a Larry Brown Tenure wants to do it again.
Click to expand...

Larry Brown works best with role players. The Sixers without Iverson are all role players.

I was pissed about Larry leaving the first time, but look at the alternatives. Mo Cheeks was a great player, but he doesn't even have a strategy as a coach. Frankly, anything will go. If we weren't so desperate as fans, maybe we would hold a grudge.
 
phillyfan26 said:


Larry Brown works best with role players. The Sixers without Iverson are all role players.

I was pissed about Larry leaving the first time, but look at the alternatives. Mo Cheeks was a great player, but he doesn't even have a strategy as a coach. Frankly, anything will go. If we weren't so desperate as fans, maybe we would hold a grudge.
Click to expand...

How would you feel about Rick Adelman? He's available.
 
Namkur,
I think the thing is it's easy to forget the past. Look at his record basically from 1993 on. Cancel out New York and that's not bad and a couple possible rebuilding(philly) or end of an era(indy) and it doesn't look so bad.

I don't so much like his persona, or coaching of the team either really. But if you look at that, sure only one championship, but playoffs for a lot of those years I mentioned, that gets recognition.
 
namkcuR said:


How would you feel about Rick Adelman? He's available.
Click to expand...

I think they're releasing "The Best Rick Adelman Playoff Collapses" DVD this Christmas too.

:happy:

(yes, that's a Sports Guy joke but I think it applies here)
 
Would you want to play against an Australian National team that featured a front line of Bogut at C, a coaxed out of retirement Longley mixing it up at PF, and the New Zealand transplant Axver holding it down at SF? The answer is "hell no".
 
namkcuR said:


I don't think I'm underestimating him.

The championship and finals appearance with Detroit happened because he walked into a team that Joe Dumars and RICK CARLISLE built, a team that had been getting progressively better and was already poised to go for the title. I said in 2004, and I will continue to say, that that Detroit team would've won the championship that year with LB OR with Rick Carlisle. The fact is, Detroit played against a Lakers team that was literally falling apart before our eyes. I don't for one minute believe that LB did anything with Detroit that Rick Carlisle couldn't have done.

The finals appearance with Philadelphia was pure fluke. It was the result of a combination of two things: First, the Eastern Conference that year was as terrible as I have EVER seen it, and THAT is saying something. Second, Iverson wouldn't let them lose. The Carter/Davis-led Raptors and Allen/Big Dog/Cassell-led Bucks of that year both took the Sixers to seven games before losing, and both teams should have won their respective series'. Outside of Iverson, that Sixers team got completely outplayed by every team it played, but Iverson was so amazing that year that he would will the team to victory, and that's exactly what happened against the Raptors and the Bucks. At the brink of defeat, Iverson would always score 50 and bail them out. Once they got the finals, the Lakers destroyed them outside of a tight Game 1. Outside of that season, the LB-led Sixers were a mediocre team.

The back-to-back ECF appearances with the Pacers were actually legit. LB had walked into a team that had a bunch of players that suited his style perfectly; Reggie, the Davis's, Mark Jackson, Chuck Person, Herb Williams, etc. Other than that, I have to say this is the only success of LB's NBA career that I give him any real credit for.

That's not much.

Look at his season-by-season finishes in the NBA:

1976-1977 Denver 50-32 Lost in first round
1977-1978 Denver 48-34 Lost in second round
1978-1979 Denver 28-25 Did not qualify
1981-1982 New Jersey 44-38 Lost in first round
1982-1983 New Jersey 47-29 did not qualify
1988-1989 San Antonio 21-61 did not qualify
1989-1990 San Antonio 56-26 Lost in second round
1990-1991 San Antonio 55-27 Lost in first round
1991-1992 San Antonio 21-17 (Bolted town mid-season)
1991-1992 Los Angeles Clippers 23-12 Lost in first round
1992-1993 Los Angeles Clippers 41-41 Lost in first round
1993-1994 Indiana 47-35 Lost in ECF
1994-1995 Indiana 52-30 Lost in ECF
1995-1996 Indiana 52-30 Lost in first round
1996-1997 Indina 39-43 Did not qualify
1997-1998 Philadelphia 31-51 did not qualify
1998-1999 Philadelphia 28-22 Lost in second round
1999-2000 Philadelphia 49-33 Lost in second round
2000-2001 Philadelphia 56-26 Lost in finals
2001-2002 Philadelphia 43-39 Lost in first round
2002-2003 Philadelphia 48-34 Lost in second round
2003-2004 Detroit 54-28 Won championship
2004-2005 Detroit 54-28 Lost in finals
2005-2006 New York 23-59 did not qualify

In 23 full seasons coaching in the NBA, LB's teams have had the following finishes:

6 DNQs
7 first round losses
5 second round losses
2 conference finals lossses
2 finals losses
1 championship

In 23 full seasons coaching in the NBA, Larry Brown's teams have gotten past the second round of the playoffs only 5 times. 18 times, Larry Brown's teams have lost in the first or second round of the playoffs or not made the playoffs at all.

That means that 78% of Larry Brown's teams have been no better than second-round teams, while only 22% of his teams - less than a quarter - have made it past the second round.

He hasn't had THAT much success in the NBA.

Everybody keeps saying, 'yeah, he has a huge ego and is very high maintanance, but it's worth it because wherever he goes he wins'. But that's not even true.

You say that LB's consistant success makes his bullshit worthwhile, but I contend that LB's success has been anything but consistant.
Click to expand...

and 8 different 50+ win seasons with 5 different teams.

and of those 6 did not qualify seasons... one was in a strike shortened season with a team that was 3 games over .500, one was with a team that won 47 games... really... ya wanna talk about flukes? how many times will a team that wins 47 games not make the playoffs? if the nets were to win 47 games this year they'd win their division in a lanslide... two DNQ seasons were followed the next season by trips to the second round of the playoffs, and the other was with the knicks, which doesn't count.

you can dislike larry brown's personality all you want... the man is one hell of a coach. he comes with baggage, as many great coaches do. if you don't want to accept the baggage, you don't hire him. but he's improved every team he's ever been with.

you fail to mention his .744 career NCAA winning percentage, along with three final four appearances, two trips to the national championship game and one national title... all in just seven seasons.

you also don't mention the great success he had in the ABA

you completely ignore that when he coached the nets and clippers they were utter laughing stocks... and he led them both to the playoffs. before this recent run, the clippers had been to the playoffs three times in the first 27 years of their existance... two of those three playoff teams were coached by larry brown.

the man is a great coach... a master teacher from THE line of master teachers (brown played for dean smith, deam smith played for phog allen, phog allen played for james nasmith). he is held in the highest regard by his fellow coaches as an expert of the game.

you may not believe he's a good man for how he ultimately leaves every team he goes to, but he is what he is. you know what he is when you sign him. if you don't like it, don't sign him.

and the detroit thing... yea, i know it was a fluke championship. kobe bryant cost the lakers the title that year. i've been saying that the pistons were bad for years and have been ridiculed for doing so. but he did get them there, which rick carslisle could never do (and has never done with indiana).

and yea, the east was awful when the 6ers went... and it's still awful... but he still did get allen iverson to the finals when no body else, with a very similar roster, has been able to get him out of the first round (if they even get to the playoffs at all).

does he end up screwing the team that's hired in the end? sure... so did pat riley. he screwed the knicks in the butt to go to miami, then bailed on them when they thought the team was gonna suck, then came swooping back in and screwing stan van gundy in the butt to "save the day" when van gundy had the team at .500 with shaq out injured.

phil jackson bails every time his best players leave and has never coached a team to a playoff victory in which he didn't have the best player on the court. the only reason why he's back with the lakers now is 'cause he's eventually gonna own the team.

which leads me to my final point... coaches are only as good as their players. great coaches can have shitty records and shitty coaches can have great records depending on who's wearing the uniform. the truly legendary coaches are the ones who take lesser talent and make htem over-achieve. larry brown's history is filled with such teams.
 
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:up:

Great post Headache.

Speaking of great players, I just watched Dwayne Wade completely demolish everyone and everything in Miami today.

It was great to see him do his thing and the Mamba choke a bit.
 
The Magic have lost 9 of the last 12 and dropped from the 1st seed to the 7th.

Faaantastic.
 
Mike Fratello has been let go from the Grizzlies.

Some rumors going around that KG has quietly asked out of Minnesota.

And James Posey is a piece of shit.
 
KG should go to either:

Da Bulls, The Clippers, or The Warriors.

Even though the Wolves are 1 game out of the playoffs.
 
I would love KG on my Bulls! I really think his style of play would fit the system and he's exactly what we need! A post presence and a go to guy at the end of the game.

I just don't want to give up what we'd probably have to give up to get him. What would they probably want? Gordon, Tyrus Thomas, we'd probably throw in PJ Brown b/c he really wants out of Chicago bad. Would they want Deng? Nocioni? I wouldn't know who to give up without messing with the system.

I know he's not tearing it up at all right now, but I like Tyrus Thomas. I strongly believe him and Luol Deng are the future of this team. Gordon will always be instant offense, Heinrich is a great leader, I like Sefalosha(spelling) and Nocioni, but especially Deng, I think he'll be a star. And he's still so young.

As for Thomas, the man has some great athleticism. But more importantly, the kid has the right attitude. He is learning how to work hard to get better and it's working. Once Thomas gets a feel for how he can play in this league, I think he'll be a monster.

So, Garnett for PJ Brown and Victor Khryapa. Deal!

Edit: Ok, I could deal with losing Tyrus Thomas. But not Deng.
 
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Got Philk? said:
I would love KG on my Bulls! I really think his style of play would fit the system and he's exactly what we need! A post presence and a go to guy at the end of the game.

I just don't want to give up what we'd probably have to give up to get him. What would they probably want? Gordon, Tyrus Thomas, we'd probably throw in PJ Brown b/c he really wants out of Chicago bad. Would they want Deng? Nocioni? I wouldn't know who to give up without messing with the system.

I know he's not tearing it up at all right now, but I like Tyrus Thomas. I strongly believe him and Luol Deng are the future of this team. Gordon will always be instant offense, Heinrich is a great leader, I like Sefalosha(spelling) and Nocioni, but especially Deng, I think he'll be a star. And he's still so young.

As for Thomas, the man has some great athleticism. But more importantly, the kid has the right attitude. He is learning how to work hard to get better and it's working. Once Thomas gets a feel for how he can play in this league, I think he'll be a monster.

So, Garnett for PJ Brown and Victor Khryapa. Deal!

Edit: Ok, I could deal with losing Tyrus Thomas. But not Deng.
Click to expand...

Look at the Iverson deal - the guy is a superstar and Denver still got him for Andre miller and two mid-firsts.

I'd do KG for Tyrus, Duhon, PJ, and EITHER Nocioni or our swap option w/NYK, but not both.

With the way Gordon has been playing lately, I'd have a hard time trading him. Deng the same. Hinrich has been in a slump lately but he's a good young PG and I'd have a hard time trading him too.
 
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