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Old 10-20-2005, 02:41 PM   #466
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The only thing I dislike about the hill is the flagpole being right in it, too dangerous.
Its so deep to the hill area, it rarely comes into play, but the catch Taveras made (8th inning game 4 I think it was) was a tremendous play, and its likely an opposing center fielder may not make the catch not being used to the hill.
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Old 10-20-2005, 02:49 PM   #467
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and it would be nice to see biggio and bagwell win a world series.
Hopefully Bagwell will be able to contribute as a DH so he's not just a spectator for the whole thing.
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Old 10-20-2005, 03:05 PM   #468
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if Houston wins the World Series that will be 4 Wild Card teams in a row, would that be enough for MLB to try to disadvantage the Wild Card team more, or do you think they don't care?

In football, if the Wild Card team wins the Superbowl they really have to earn it. In baseball, the wild card team almost has an advantage. They have to be playing hot baseball in order to make it into the playoffs, and then I almost think the 2-3-2 format favors the team without homefield advantage. There should never be a point in the series where the team that is supposed to be disadvantaged has the advantage, but after 5 games the team without homefield has had 3 games at home and 2 on the road. After 6 it's even, and only if the game goes 7 does the team that is supposed to have homefield advantage realize it. I think a 2-2-1-1-1 format is the most fair, though that causes travel problems, then id rather see a 3-3-1 format. thoughts?
well... a 2-2-1-1-1 setup wouldn't really have made a difference... the cards won game 5 in houston, and the astros won game 6 in st. louis.

it actually would have made it harder for the cardinals to win game 6 in a 2-2-1-1-1 setting, as they would have had to go back to houston.
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Old 10-20-2005, 03:14 PM   #469
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And you'll never see 3-3-1, theoretically that puts the road team down 0-3 before getting a home game if the teams hold serve.

The 2-3-2 worked fine in last years's NLCS when all 7 games were won by the home team, this year the Cards lost twice at home, I think that was the main problem with the system this year.

Plus as far as the wildcard team, the first round is best of 5, so the 2-3-2 only comes into play if the wild card advances.
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Old 10-20-2005, 03:15 PM   #470
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well... a 2-2-1-1-1 setup wouldn't really have made a difference... the cards won game 5 in houston, and the astros won game 6 in st. louis.

it actually would have made it harder for the cardinals to win game 6 in a 2-2-1-1-1 setting, as they would have had to go back to houston.
oh im not really talking about the st louis-houston series, they would have beat us no matter what the setup, they outplayed us.

i just think in general, the 2-3-2 format is not right. after 4 games home games are split 2-2, after 5 games its 3-2 for the road team, after 6 its 3-3-, and only if it goes to 7 games does the team with homefield advantage realize it.

i just dont think that at any point in a series should the team that is supposed to be disadvantaged should have more games at home than the other team.

a 2-2-1-1-1 or a 3-3-1 setup makes sure that doesnt happen.

and maybe that is one reason why so many wild card teams have been successful lately?
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Old 10-20-2005, 03:18 PM   #471
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i think it's simply a matter of the wild card teams being just as good as the division winners.

the padres were division winners, and they blow.
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Old 10-20-2005, 03:21 PM   #472
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i think it's simply a matter of the wild card teams being just as good as the division winners.

the padres were division winners, and they blow.
im sorry but if a team finishes 11 games behind the division winner, then they just aren't as good as the division winner over the long haul. they may be hot and be better than them at the right time, but i think proving it over 162 games then over a couple weeks should mean more. i really think the wild card team should be disadvantaged a bit more going into the playoffs.
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Old 10-20-2005, 03:32 PM   #473
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the "gimmicks" make the stadium unique... as opposed to the cookie cutter stadiums that populated baseball through the 70s and 80s.

most of the "gimmicks" used at minute maid are based on old time baseball stadiums.
If your team is winning why do they care if the stadium is "unique?" It's just odd to me. I care about what's on the field, not how quirky the ballpark is. Maybe I'm alone in this.


As for the playoffs, I could get behind a 2-2-1-1-1 system.
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Old 10-20-2005, 03:56 PM   #474
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everyone is all about making money & spending as little as possible, that's why the format is 2-3-2 & it will stay that way to cut costs. The visitors make 3 trips with the home team making 2
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Old 10-20-2005, 03:58 PM   #475
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Originally posted by Chizip


im sorry but if a team finishes 11 games behind the division winner, then they just aren't as good as the division winner over the long haul. they may be hot and be better than them at the right time, but i think proving it over 162 games then over a couple weeks should mean more. i really think the wild card team should be disadvantaged a bit more going into the playoffs.
from june 1st through the end of the season, the astros had a better record than the cardinals did.

houston 72-39 ---
st. louis 67-44 5.0


to say houston is on the same level as the division winner is not a stretch at all. it was more than just "getting hot" over a couple of weeks.
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Old 10-20-2005, 04:19 PM   #476
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so the first 2 months of a season dont count? over 6 months, 162 grueling games, 16 head to head matches, the cardinals proved themselves to be 11 games better than the astros. yet going into the playoffs there is no real disadvantage for them. i dont know, i just wish Costas was commissioner

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The Wildcard can sometimes yield good story lines. There's no question that the Florida Marlins were a good story line. And sometimes a team that's a Wildcard is playing as well as anybody, or better, come August or September.

So, the objection of the Wildcard was never that a Wildcard team wasn't good enough to be in the post-season tournament or couldn't win it.

The objection, for thoughtful fans was, that it destroyed the concept of a pennant race. As long as you have a Wildcard you can't have a true pennant race, because there's not an "all or nothing" aspect to finishing first in your Division, unless the pace of the Division is so slow that first place team would have lesser record than the Wildcard.

Otherwise, the Wildcard undermines the excitement of a close divisional race that goes to the wire. And, it actually penalizes teams that win their divisions in a blow-out, like the Braves or the Giants, because they get no significant advantage once the playoffs start over a mediocre division winners or the Wildcard. That's the real objection.

The contrast between that, and let's say, football - could Wildcard team go to the Super Bowl? Yeah, and God bless them if they do, because they have to go a tougher road - they have to play an extra game - they're on the road all the time. Whereas teams that do better during the regular season get a first-round bye, perhaps, which is a huge advantage. Then they have homefield throughout the Playoffs, and since Playoff round in football is only one game, that homefield is 100%. It's not one extra game out of 5, or 1 extra game out of 7.

Now, they're (MLB) never going to change this playoff format, at least not in the next couple of years. Because, by luck, this playoff format this year, coughed up the Red Sox, the Cubs, the Yankees, and a great story line with the Marlins; and all the Series went the limit; and they all had compelling story lines. And so, if they fiddled with the format, the superficial reaction would be, "Hey, why are you messing up a good thing?" But, it's exactly the same format that produced relatively uninteresting post-seasons in the past, and relatively low ratings on television in the past.

What they (MLB) really should do, is seed the playoffs in a way that makes sense. Not eliminate the Wildcard necessarily, but create a distinction between being the Wildcard and being a team that wins its Division.
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Old 10-20-2005, 09:03 PM   #477
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chizip


im sorry but if a team finishes 11 games behind the division winner, then they just aren't as good as the division winner over the long haul. they may be hot and be better than them at the right time, but i think proving it over 162 games then over a couple weeks should mean more. i really think the wild card team should be disadvantaged a bit more going into the playoffs.
For the mathematically inclined -- the standard deviation in number of wins over a 162 game season is 6 wins, unless the team is really bad or really good. (Think of it as the plus-minus in a presidential approval rating.) If two teams finish the season within 6 games of each other, it's hard to say clearly that one team was better than the other. If it's 11 games behind, it's clearer.

That being said, I think 8 teams is exactly the right number of teams, and a 1-game home field advantage is plenty.
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Old 10-20-2005, 09:10 PM   #478
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i hate bob costas

he graduated from high school with rosie o'donnell, a town over from me

i hate rosie o'donnell
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Old 10-20-2005, 11:22 PM   #479
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I thought bob costas was from St. Louis
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Old 10-21-2005, 08:06 AM   #480
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The Bob Costas thing is from 2003 for cryin' out loud.

Maybe its not so much about wildcard as it is about building a team that can win a 7 game series over baseball's other top teams. To do this you need minimum 2 stud pitchers and a top flight closer. The 2004 Red Sox had Pedro Martinez and Curt Schilling atop their rotation, 2 of the top pitchers in the game the last 15 years, plus Keith Foulke was at his best in 2004. The 2005 Astros have 3 studs heading their rotation, Roger Clemens, arguably the game's best pitcher ever, certainly the best in this generation, Andy Petitte, always a solid starter with a track record of tremendous post season success, and back to back 20 game winner Roy Oswalt, plus a beast of a closer in Brad Lidge.
The White Sox have 4 very capable starters, the bullpen is less proven, but Guillen's staff played 1960's retro baseball in the ALCS and the bullpen has basically had 2 full weeks of rest.

The 2003 Marlins also won with stud pitching form Josh Beckett et al. The advantage is not being a wild card, its having the better pitching staff.
Do you think Sandy Koufax, Bob Gibson or Don Drysdale cared whether they toed the rubber at home or on the road in the World Series?
The Cards' problem (and this is whats really caused this home field discussion, though the 2-3-2 format worked perfectly in their favor in the 2004 NLCS) is that they have some good pitchers, but don't haven't had 2 studs in their rotation (last year they had zero, this year we'll give them 1 with Carpenter who had a tremendous season, though historically he's still more of a #2 or #3 man in a rotation), plus the back end of their bullpen is by no means dominant.
When the Cards decide to spend a few sheckels and seek a true ace for their staff (Matt Morris is not and never will be such a pitcher), then they might expect a shot at postseason success, until then they could play 7 games at Busch Stadium or the new Cheney Stadium and still lose to a wildcard if that wildcard has the aces on its staff that Houston currently has.
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