MLP 2K5 Playoff edition

[Headache in a Suitcase]

don't both teams get to hit at the same wall? if anything, minute maid's quirky nature lends an advantage to the team that actually plays there every day vs. the team that's never played there at all.

meanwhile... comiskacellular field is as cookie cutter as they come.

it's like playing at fenway... those who play there often and are used to the wall have a clear advantage over those who've never played there at all.

 

[Chizip]

speaking of ballparks my eyes swelled upa bit leaving busch for the last time ever last night. stayed around for an hour and a half after the game was over and there was still a couple thousand fans left. for being a cookie cutter park it was beautiful, and it's sad to see it go.

white sox in 6. the cardinals lineup made the astros pitchers look better then they really are.

and i agree about the umps, its unbelievable how bad they have been this postseason.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

it really did turn it's self into a very nice looking ballpark in it's final years... if only shea could do the same as it heads towards it's death march.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

the new one looks pretty damn nice though...

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

can we start talking about roy oswalt as the best pitcher in baseball? i'm serious now...

two straight 20 win seasons... 19+ wins in 3 of the last 4 years, with the 4th year being one that was cut in half by injuries. 4-0 over the past two seasons in the post-season.

20 wins and an era under 3 this year for a playoff team, yet he's never once mentioned as a cy young candidate.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

rotation for houston is likely to be clemens, pettite, oswalt, backe, clemens, pettite, oswalt.

that's tough right there... very very tough.

 

[Chizip]

yeah the new one is going to be nice, but it was a werid feeling being sad leaving Busch for the final time, then walking by the half built new ballpark.

though i almost feel like the "retro" stadium is the new "cookie cutter" stadium. everybody is buliding retro parks these days, i almost wish they had gone in a different, more unique, direction.

oswalt is good no doubt, but the cardinals have owned him in the past, that's why i was so surprised to see him shut us down. props to him though. i wouldn't mind seeing the astros win the world series, they are a classy organization (except for phil garner who is a douchebag), and it would be nice to see biggio and bagwell win a world series. hopefully clemens would retire for good then too.

 

[Chizip]

rotation for houston is likely to be clemens, pettite, oswalt, backe, clemens, pettite, oswalt.

that's tough right there... very very tough.

i think clemens gets beat twice, he is not the same pitcher he was earlier in the season. hell atlanta lit him up for 5 runs.

the white sox will also beat backe and pettite once to win it in 6.

i think the white sox lineup is a good fit against the astros. you can't string a bunch of hits against this pitching staff, you need to get someone on and then hope for a home run. while the white sox dont have a big home run hitter, they have 6 or guys with 20+ homeruns, so any one of them can send it out at anytime. so i think thay will be key.

 

[WildHoneyAlways]

The Sock have 200 home runs this year.

And Sox park is actually a very fan friendly place. Even my cub fan friends like watching games there.

One of my students offered to sell me the tickets he got from his uncle, who works for the sock. We'll see if that pans out.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

The Sock have 200 home runs this year.

And Sox park is actually a very fan friendly place. Even my cub fan friends like watching games there.

One of my students offered to sell me the tickets he got from his uncle, who works for the sock. We'll see if that pans out.

fan friendly it may be, the fans don't play. there's nothing unique that takes getting used to about whatever the heck they're calling it these days.

you can't say the same about minute maid. there's a lot of strange quirks about it... from the short left field porch, to the pilars in left field, to the hill in centerfield, to that little overhang in left centerfield.

 

[Numb1075]

Not only has Oswalt been spectacular in the past few seasons, he also plays in a homer friendly park (except for the cavernous CF)

My prediction: White Sox in 7. Both pitching staffs are real solid w/ slight edge going to Houston, however, I think over a long series, the Sox have a much more diverse line up and can score runs in a more variety of ways than houston.

I sure do miss the Big Hurt, he's played a long time to get to the WS and won't even play. He was a MONSTER.

But the game isn't played on paper (or on interference for that matter)...we shall see.

 

[MrBrau1]

Knicks in 8.

 

[WildHoneyAlways]

you can't say the same about minute maid. there's a lot of strange quirks about it... from the short left field porch, to the pilars in left field, to the hill in centerfield, to that little overhang in left centerfield.

Why do ballparks need a gimmick? That hill in center field just might be the stupidest addition to a ballpark ever.

 

[Chizip]

if Houston wins the World Series that will be 4 Wild Card teams in a row, would that be enough for MLB to try to disadvantage the Wild Card team more, or do you think they don't care?

In football, if the Wild Card team wins the Superbowl they really have to earn it. In baseball, the wild card team almost has an advantage. They have to be playing hot baseball in order to make it into the playoffs, and then I almost think the 2-3-2 format favors the team without homefield advantage. There should never be a point in the series where the team that is supposed to be disadvantaged has the advantage, but after 5 games the team without homefield has had 3 games at home and 2 on the road. After 6 it's even, and only if the game goes 7 does the team that is supposed to have homefield advantage realize it. I think a 2-2-1-1-1 format is the most fair, though that causes travel problems, then id rather see a 3-3-1 format. thoughts?

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Why do ballparks need a gimmick? That hill in center field just might be the stupidest addition to a ballpark ever.

the "gimmicks" make the stadium unique... as opposed to the cookie cutter stadiums that populated baseball through the 70s and 80s.

most of the "gimmicks" used at minute maid are based on old time baseball stadiums.

the hill in centerfield was a "tribute" to the hill that was located in crosley field, cincinatti...

the flag pole in play is remenicisent of the old yankee stadium and tiger stadium.

 

[Hewson]

The only thing I dislike about the hill is the flagpole being right in it, too dangerous.
Its so deep to the hill area, it rarely comes into play, but the catch Taveras made (8th inning game 4 I think it was) was a tremendous play, and its likely an opposing center fielder may not make the catch not being used to the hill.

 

[phanan]

and it would be nice to see biggio and bagwell win a world series.

Hopefully Bagwell will be able to contribute as a DH so he's not just a spectator for the whole thing.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

if Houston wins the World Series that will be 4 Wild Card teams in a row, would that be enough for MLB to try to disadvantage the Wild Card team more, or do you think they don't care?

In football, if the Wild Card team wins the Superbowl they really have to earn it. In baseball, the wild card team almost has an advantage. They have to be playing hot baseball in order to make it into the playoffs, and then I almost think the 2-3-2 format favors the team without homefield advantage. There should never be a point in the series where the team that is supposed to be disadvantaged has the advantage, but after 5 games the team without homefield has had 3 games at home and 2 on the road. After 6 it's even, and only if the game goes 7 does the team that is supposed to have homefield advantage realize it. I think a 2-2-1-1-1 format is the most fair, though that causes travel problems, then id rather see a 3-3-1 format. thoughts?

well... a 2-2-1-1-1 setup wouldn't really have made a difference... the cards won game 5 in houston, and the astros won game 6 in st. louis.

it actually would have made it harder for the cardinals to win game 6 in a 2-2-1-1-1 setting, as they would have had to go back to houston.

 

[Hewson]

And you'll never see 3-3-1, theoretically that puts the road team down 0-3 before getting a home game if the teams hold serve.

The 2-3-2 worked fine in last years's NLCS when all 7 games were won by the home team, this year the Cards lost twice at home, I think that was the main problem with the system this year.

Plus as far as the wildcard team, the first round is best of 5, so the 2-3-2 only comes into play if the wild card advances.

 

[Chizip]

well... a 2-2-1-1-1 setup wouldn't really have made a difference... the cards won game 5 in houston, and the astros won game 6 in st. louis.

it actually would have made it harder for the cardinals to win game 6 in a 2-2-1-1-1 setting, as they would have had to go back to houston.

oh im not really talking about the st louis-houston series, they would have beat us no matter what the setup, they outplayed us.

i just think in general, the 2-3-2 format is not right. after 4 games home games are split 2-2, after 5 games its 3-2 for the road team, after 6 its 3-3-, and only if it goes to 7 games does the team with homefield advantage realize it.

i just dont think that at any point in a series should the team that is supposed to be disadvantaged should have more games at home than the other team.

a 2-2-1-1-1 or a 3-3-1 setup makes sure that doesnt happen.

and maybe that is one reason why so many wild card teams have been successful lately?

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

i think it's simply a matter of the wild card teams being just as good as the division winners.

the padres were division winners, and they blow.

 

[Chizip]

i think it's simply a matter of the wild card teams being just as good as the division winners.

the padres were division winners, and they blow.

im sorry but if a team finishes 11 games behind the division winner, then they just aren't as good as the division winner over the long haul. they may be hot and be better than them at the right time, but i think proving it over 162 games then over a couple weeks should mean more. i really think the wild card team should be disadvantaged a bit more going into the playoffs.

 

[WildHoneyAlways]

the "gimmicks" make the stadium unique... as opposed to the cookie cutter stadiums that populated baseball through the 70s and 80s.

most of the "gimmicks" used at minute maid are based on old time baseball stadiums.

If your team is winning why do they care if the stadium is "unique?" It's just odd to me. I care about what's on the field, not how quirky the ballpark is. Maybe I'm alone in this.


As for the playoffs, I could get behind a 2-2-1-1-1 system.

 

[Imarocker]

everyone is all about making money & spending as little as possible, that's why the format is 2-3-2 & it will stay that way to cut costs. The visitors make 3 trips with the home team making 2

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

im sorry but if a team finishes 11 games behind the division winner, then they just aren't as good as the division winner over the long haul. they may be hot and be better than them at the right time, but i think proving it over 162 games then over a couple weeks should mean more. i really think the wild card team should be disadvantaged a bit more going into the playoffs.

from june 1st through the end of the season, the astros had a better record than the cardinals did.

houston 72-39 ---
st. louis 67-44 5.0


to say houston is on the same level as the division winner is not a stretch at all. it was more than just "getting hot" over a couple of weeks.

 

[Chizip]

so the first 2 months of a season dont count? over 6 months, 162 grueling games, 16 head to head matches, the cardinals proved themselves to be 11 games better than the astros. yet going into the playoffs there is no real disadvantage for them. i dont know, i just wish Costas was commissioner

The Wildcard can sometimes yield good story lines. There's no question that the Florida Marlins were a good story line. And sometimes a team that's a Wildcard is playing as well as anybody, or better, come August or September.

So, the objection of the Wildcard was never that a Wildcard team wasn't good enough to be in the post-season tournament or couldn't win it.

The objection, for thoughtful fans was, that it destroyed the concept of a pennant race. As long as you have a Wildcard you can't have a true pennant race, because there's not an "all or nothing" aspect to finishing first in your Division, unless the pace of the Division is so slow that first place team would have lesser record than the Wildcard.

Otherwise, the Wildcard undermines the excitement of a close divisional race that goes to the wire. And, it actually penalizes teams that win their divisions in a blow-out, like the Braves or the Giants, because they get no significant advantage once the playoffs start over a mediocre division winners or the Wildcard. That's the real objection.

The contrast between that, and let's say, football - could Wildcard team go to the Super Bowl? Yeah, and God bless them if they do, because they have to go a tougher road - they have to play an extra game - they're on the road all the time. Whereas teams that do better during the regular season get a first-round bye, perhaps, which is a huge advantage. Then they have homefield throughout the Playoffs, and since Playoff round in football is only one game, that homefield is 100%. It's not one extra game out of 5, or 1 extra game out of 7.

Now, they're (MLB) never going to change this playoff format, at least not in the next couple of years. Because, by luck, this playoff format this year, coughed up the Red Sox, the Cubs, the Yankees, and a great story line with the Marlins; and all the Series went the limit; and they all had compelling story lines. And so, if they fiddled with the format, the superficial reaction would be, "Hey, why are you messing up a good thing?" But, it's exactly the same format that produced relatively uninteresting post-seasons in the past, and relatively low ratings on television in the past.

What they (MLB) really should do, is seed the playoffs in a way that makes sense. Not eliminate the Wildcard necessarily, but create a distinction between being the Wildcard and being a team that wins its Division.

 

[speedracer]

im sorry but if a team finishes 11 games behind the division winner, then they just aren't as good as the division winner over the long haul. they may be hot and be better than them at the right time, but i think proving it over 162 games then over a couple weeks should mean more. i really think the wild card team should be disadvantaged a bit more going into the playoffs.

For the mathematically inclined -- the standard deviation in number of wins over a 162 game season is 6 wins, unless the team is really bad or really good. (Think of it as the plus-minus in a presidential approval rating.) If two teams finish the season within 6 games of each other, it's hard to say clearly that one team was better than the other. If it's 11 games behind, it's clearer.

That being said, I think 8 teams is exactly the right number of teams, and a 1-game home field advantage is plenty.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

i hate bob costas

he graduated from high school with rosie o'donnell, a town over from me

i hate rosie o'donnell

 

[zoney!]

I thought bob costas was from St. Louis

 

[Hewson]

The Bob Costas thing is from 2003 for cryin' out loud.

Maybe its not so much about wildcard as it is about building a team that can win a 7 game series over baseball's other top teams. To do this you need minimum 2 stud pitchers and a top flight closer. The 2004 Red Sox had Pedro Martinez and Curt Schilling atop their rotation, 2 of the top pitchers in the game the last 15 years, plus Keith Foulke was at his best in 2004. The 2005 Astros have 3 studs heading their rotation, Roger Clemens, arguably the game's best pitcher ever, certainly the best in this generation, Andy Petitte, always a solid starter with a track record of tremendous post season success, and back to back 20 game winner Roy Oswalt, plus a beast of a closer in Brad Lidge.
The White Sox have 4 very capable starters, the bullpen is less proven, but Guillen's staff played 1960's retro baseball in the ALCS and the bullpen has basically had 2 full weeks of rest.

The 2003 Marlins also won with stud pitching form Josh Beckett et al. The advantage is not being a wild card, its having the better pitching staff.
Do you think Sandy Koufax, Bob Gibson or Don Drysdale cared whether they toed the rubber at home or on the road in the World Series?
The Cards' problem (and this is whats really caused this home field discussion, though the 2-3-2 format worked perfectly in their favor in the 2004 NLCS) is that they have some good pitchers, but don't haven't had 2 studs in their rotation (last year they had zero, this year we'll give them 1 with Carpenter who had a tremendous season, though historically he's still more of a #2 or #3 man in a rotation), plus the back end of their bullpen is by no means dominant.
When the Cards decide to spend a few sheckels and seek a true ace for their staff (Matt Morris is not and never will be such a pitcher), then they might expect a shot at postseason success, until then they could play 7 games at Busch Stadium or the new Cheney Stadium and still lose to a wildcard if that wildcard has the aces on its staff that Houston currently has.