MLB Offseason Thread: 2007-2008

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Hewson said:
Maybe Yankee fans care cause their 4 WS titles between 1996 and 2000 now have to be listed in the record books with an asterisk.
*

:wink:

Don't lump me in with him.

And, 1996 seems to be clean, the rest, who knows? It's a bummer that so many Yankees are implicated, that's for sure.
 
I think it's easy to assume that at least half the players were doing something, because they all have to know what their teammates are doing. And the pressure to stay competitive is pretty great.

How long has Lyle Alzado been dead? He was pumping that stuff at least 25 years ago, and I doubt he was the only one.

None of this can really be a surprise to anyone following sports the last couple decades.

Glad to see Kevin Brown's name on the list :yes: What an a-hole
 
Yeah, I agree there. But my point was that the use of these drugs has been going on for a long time.

Saw a funny quote today in the LA Times, "Remember when Sosa and McGwire were hitting all those bombs, and people were wondering if the baseballs were juiced". :lol:
 
MrPryck2U said:
I NEVER ONCE SAID MITCHELL WAS STICKING IT TO THE YANKEES!
Mitchell's report only effects one current Yankee, Andy Pettite.

Everyone else thinks I'm pissed because it's got a bunch of Yankees in the report. I'm not. Why do I care about shit that happened 5-10 years ago? I only care about stuff that's happened in 2004 and afterward when all this shit was made illegal.

MY OPINION IS THAT THIS REPORT SEEMS TO BE A LITTLE FISHY. That's where my opinion comes in. Yes, it's not a fact, just an opinion. It is possible, believe it or not, that a person can have an opinion about an alleged fact.
The Mitchell report is only the beginning of this saga in MLB.

Just think, if I went along with the rest you, you wouldn't have someone to pick on or insult.

Actually, all of it except Andro has been illegal for longer than since 2004.

Here's the thing: You've no basis for your fishy argument. None. Your opinion is not an argument. You can have an opinion, as long as it's based on facts.

And, yeah, what Headache said for the last part. :lol:
 
phillyfan26 said:


Actually, all of it except Andro has been illegal for longer than since 2004.

Here's the thing: You've no basis for your fishy argument. None. Your opinion is not an argument. You can have an opinion, as long as it's based on facts.

And, yeah, what Headache said for the last part. :lol:

I believe HGH wasn't made illegal until January of 2005.
 
Ah, right. I forgot about that.

But most of the steroids listed have been illegal for a while, right?
 
Headache in a Suitcase said:
i think the thing that clemens and even bonds have going for them from this report is that steroids don't make you a great player, as seen by the sheer number of bums on this list. you've got to be pretty damned good already to have steroids help you over the top.

Both Bonds & Clemens (and probably Canseco too actually) were great players, and they'd have been great with or without roids. But guys like McGwire & Sosa were pretty one-dimensional, neither was a great hitter or great player, they just hit for a ton of power. If I was voting I'd vote Bonds & Clemens in, and leave McGwire & Sosa out.
 
clemensbutt.jpg
 
CTU2fan said:


Both Bonds & Clemens (and probably Canseco too actually) were great players, and they'd have been great with or without roids. But guys like McGwire & Sosa were pretty one-dimensional, neither was a great hitter or great player, they just hit for a ton of power. If I was voting I'd vote Bonds & Clemens in, and leave McGwire & Sosa out.

Even as a Cubs fan I see no reason for Sammy to make it to the HOF.

McGwire however I might think differently. Correct me if I am wrong, but he hasn't been accused of taking steriods, just androstenedione, which was not illegal at the time he used it.

If that is the case, the man should be given consideration because he did not cheat according to the rules.

Plus, it wasn't just his record setting home run year that made him good, he was fairly good in Oakland too.

edit: Jose Canseco's book isn't enough to prove to me he was on steriods either.
 
So the Rocket issued his statement, categorically denying everything. My favorite bit was how he feels he's earned the benefit of the doubt through his actions during his MLB career. Yeah sure Roger. This is a guy who:

Left Boston to "be closer to home in Texas" - by going to Toronto.
Made an illegal side deal where he could demand a trade to NYY if TO didn't work out.
Threw a bat at Mike Piazza.
Ducked starts at Shea afterward because he was afraid of getting dusted.
Has been a headhunter for 10 years now (roid rage?).
Went on a farewell tour, accepted retirement gifts and accolades, then played the next season.
Left his hometown Astros to return to NYY proclaiming jubilantly "they got me outta Texas". Nice.

Yeah Roger's always been a real stand-up guy. I don't know a damn thing about McNamee but based on what I know of Clemens McNamee is more credible by default. Not to mention Pettitte (who really does seem to be a stand-up guy) corroborating McNamee's story.

C'mon Roger, tell us again whose cap you want on your HoF plaque? Not that it's going to matter now hahahaha.
 
Schilling calls out Clemens

The Canadian Press
12/19/2007 10:03:30 PM

BOSTON - Boston Red Sox pitcher Curt Schilling called on Roger Clemens to give up the four Cy Young Awards he's won since 1997 if he can't clear his name from allegations that he used steroids to prolong and enhance his career.

"If he doesn't do that then there aren't many options as a fan for me other than to believe his career 192 wins and three Cy Youngs he won prior to 1997 were the end," Schilling wrote Wednesday in his blog, 38pitches.com. "From that point on the numbers were attained through using (performance-enhancing drugs). Just like I stated about Jose (Canseco), if that is the case with Roger, the four Cy Youngs should go to the rightful winners, and the numbers should go away if he cannot refute the accusations."

Schilling noted in the 3,200-word posting that he was a fan of the seven-time Cy Young winner who owed much of his success to a stern talking-to he received from Clemens when Schilling was a prospect in the Boston system.

"His `undressing' of me and lecture were a major turning point," Schilling said. "I've always respected his career accomplishments and regarded him as the greatest pitcher to ever play the game."

But, having called on Canseco to give up his 1988 AL MVP award, and noting also the unrefuted evidence against Barry Bonds, Schilling acknowledged he could not avoid questioning Clemens' accomplishments, as well.

"Can you separate what Barry is accused of from what Roger is accused of?" Schilling said. "If .. both of these men end up being caught, what does that say about this game, us as athletes and the future of the sport and our place in it? The greatest pitcher and greatest hitter of all time are currently both being implicated, one is being prosecuted, for events surrounding and involving the use of performance enhancing drugs. That (stinks). .. The sport needs fixing."

The Rocket's last four Cy Young Awards came in 1997, 1998, 2001 and 2004. Many of the allegations against Clemens in the Mitchell Report came from former trainer Brian McNamee, though none pertain to 1997 or 2004. Mitchell wrote McNamee said he injected Clemens with steroids in 1998 while with the Toronto Blue Jays, and steroids and human growth hormone in 2000 and 2001, while with the New York Yankees.

Schilling commended those who've apologized for using performance-enhancing drugs, and called on everyone accused to prove their innocence or apologize for their mistakes.

"The world is full of good to great people that have made mistakes of this magnitude or worse," Schilling wrote. "These guys made mistakes, and I do mean mistakes. They didn't accidentally do this, this was a conscious decision with far reaching implications and they should be held accountable."

While calling Canseco's "entire career, all of it, is a sham" and saying "he was never in his life a major-league player," Schilling also acknowledged that many of Canseco's claims about other steroid users have been corroborated.

"He has broken the flood gates on a topic that went unspoken on for far too long," Schilling said.

The runners-up in Clemens' last four Cy Young-winning years were Randy Johnson (1997 and 2004), Pedro Martinez (1998) and Mark Mulder (2001).

Schilling was among those who testified in March 2005 to a U.S. House committee investigating steroids, along with Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa and Rafael Palmiero. The same committee has scheduled hearings for Jan. 15.

Clemens has not been asked to attend, though it's possible that the committee could decide to ask Clemens or other players to appear that day—or at a future hearing, if there is one.
 
I can tell you that Schill was in essence "called out" on this issue...would he be as outspoken re: Clemens as he was re: Bonds & Canseco. Really Curt had to make a statement like this or risk being called a hypocrite.

Of course everyone in the media is ripping him. We're getting such absutdities as "well Matt Williams played for the D'Backs - Curt should give back his '01 ring then". As if winning an individual award on juice is the same as winning while a teammate is juicing, or as if player X has some control over what player Y is doing just because they're teammates. Stupid.
 
Clemens is a cheating mercenary dog, who deserves much scorn, no doubt.

But Schilling is a Grade A asshole, and I am really tired of him, his blog, his opinions, etc. Don't worry Curt, when you retire, you'll have a job in TV, it's a done deal.

Now go back to playing Everquest and STFU already.
 
Schilling can be a bit much, no question about it. I like the guy because he's a Red Sock, but I can understand why non-Sox fans can't stand him.
 
Don't worry.

Roger is doing his own investigation into the steroids issue.

What do you think he'll do if his investigation turns up the fact he did steroids?
 
MrBrau1 said:
Don't worry.

Roger is doing his own investigation into the steroids issue.

What do you think he'll do if his investigation turns up the fact he did steroids?

He's continuing the hunt for the REAL juicer.
 
I'm picturing Roger and Andy Pettitte in a low-speed chase in Roger's retirement gift burnt orange Hummer...
 
roger clemens can say all he wants, preferably from george steinbrenner's box with a sobbing suzyn waldman giving the run down.

fact is unless he brings the mitchell report and/or mcnamee to court, it's all bullshit. when your name is falsely tarnished on a national level for something you did not do, and you have all the money in the world, you fight it in court to clear your name. period. one can say whatever they want to the press. it's all meaningless.
 
I'm surprised no one has broken the story yet. Former MLB player Jim Leyritz has been charged with DUI manslaughter Friday morning, 12/28/07 following a car accident that killed another driver.
 
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