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Old 02-02-2008, 09:33 PM   #361
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Cole Hamels is good, but it's the other four schlubs in the Phillies' starting rotation I'd be worried about.
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Old 02-02-2008, 10:18 PM   #362
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I wouldn't exactly call Brett Myers a schlub, and Kendrick's not terrible either. Granted, Jamie Moyer is spotty, and Adam Eaton has to really improve this year.

Gordon, Romero, and Madson should be able to eat up a few innings, and Lidge is a definite improvement for the bullpen, and is on par with Billy Wagner.

The Mets definitely have superior pitching, but it's not such a vast difference that the Mets ought to be handed the pennant on a silver platter.

The Phils have by far a better offensive lineup and infield with three perennial MVP candidates, and Philadelphia didn't absolutely decimate their farm system to pull off a blockbuster trade. If the Mets get wracked with injuries this year, they're done, whereas the Phillies have the depth (on the MLB team, at least) to patch any holes that might come up.

The more I think about this whole Santana business, the less I'm worried. The Phillies did improve too, after all.
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Old 02-02-2008, 10:25 PM   #363
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Personally I think the Mets-Phillies will both have great seasons.

Hasn't Rollins guaranteed 100 wins this year?

As long as the Braves bomb
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Old 02-02-2008, 10:44 PM   #364
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As long as the Braves bomb
Finally something for us all to agree on!
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Old 02-03-2008, 07:43 AM   #365
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Originally posted by DaveC
I wouldn't exactly call Brett Myers a schlub, and Kendrick's not terrible either. Granted, Jamie Moyer is spotty, and Adam Eaton has to really improve this year.

Gordon, Romero, and Madson should be able to eat up a few innings, and Lidge is a definite improvement for the bullpen, and is on par with Billy Wagner.

The Mets definitely have superior pitching, but it's not such a vast difference that the Mets ought to be handed the pennant on a silver platter.

The Phils have by far a better offensive lineup and infield with three perennial MVP candidates, and Philadelphia didn't absolutely decimate their farm system to pull off a blockbuster trade. If the Mets get wracked with injuries this year, they're done, whereas the Phillies have the depth (on the MLB team, at least) to patch any holes that might come up.

The more I think about this whole Santana business, the less I'm worried. The Phillies did improve too, after all.
it's fairly vast.

let's call a spade a spade here. the phillies had a nice little season last year, but it's not as if they just ran away with the division. if the mets didn't choke two separate times last year, they win the NL East by 7 games or more. they dominated the NL for every month except september. now they add johan santana.

by far the better offense? really? by far? i guess... but wright, reyes, beltran, and yes, johan are all MVP candidates in their own right. there's 4 for your 3. and as for your assertion that the mets ruined their depth with this trade... please. the only one of the 4 guys they got rid of who would have stood a chance at seeing any sort of time in 2008 was gomez. and with kenny lofton or kevin mench coming shortly to fill a last backup outfield spot, there goes that issue.

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Since Santana went into the Twins' rotation for good on July 11, 2003, he is the winningest pitcher in the game at 78-34; Roy Oswalt and Carlos Zambrano are next, with 74 and 71 wins respectively. Among pitchers who have thrown a minimum of 750 innings in those 4½ seasons, Santana has the lowest ERA (2.92) and the most strikeouts per nine innings (9.63).

Now take him out of the American League and put him into the National League, which essentially is Divison 1-A.

Someday the Yankees might rue the day they did not get Santana. The Red Sox might rue the day they didn't put Santana next to Beckett, then figure out how to make Beckett whole on the $13 million difference in their respective contracts.

But the Mets had the money, they were in the right place and Minaya never gave up. In the wars of the ballpark openings, regional television networks and My Back Pages, the Mets have struck a mighty blow.

And in the National League East, where the Phillies and Braves are very good and very aggressive, the Mets now have what no one else has.

The best pitcher on the planet.
-Peter Gammons
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Old 02-03-2008, 01:14 PM   #366
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Your points are all valid, and obviously we're on two different sides of the same issue. I just don't think anybody ought to be crowning the Mets just yet. The Phillies aren't so far back from New York that they don't stand a chance, and I think the race for the NL East is going to be close, and probably the best one in the National League.

I gotta admit too, I'm a little jealous. All the Boston fans here have the Patriots, Red Sox, and Celtics, and now you have the Giants, and the Johan Santana trade. Meanwhile, I have the Eagles, the Vancouver Canucks (on a 9-game losing streak - they went from 3rd in the conference and winning their division to 9th - 4th of 5 in the div - in a week and a half), and the Phillies (Pedro Feliz and Brad Lidge - I can hardly contain my excitement ).

Enjoy it. Some time in my life I'll hopefully get to enjoy a period of sports fandom where all my teams are red-hot too, but being a fan of Philadelphia sports teams, I don't count on it for a while.
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Old 02-03-2008, 02:59 PM   #367
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a team i root for hasn't won a championship in 18 years, while i've had to sit through 4 yankee world championships, 2 red sox world championships, 2 cowboy super bowls, the knicks losing in the finals twice before eventually turning into the laughing stock of the nba, the mets losing to the yankees in the world series IN shea stadium, and heck... back in the early 90's i was even an islander fan and had to watch the rangers sweep them out of the first round on their way to their first stanley cup in 54 years.

i feel your pain
(look it's like a mets fan in blue and a phillies fan in red )
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Old 02-03-2008, 04:52 PM   #368
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I love all the conversation about baseball's Division I-A!

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Old 02-03-2008, 05:20 PM   #369
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The Phillies pitching still sucks.

It's Hamels, Myers, and Kendrick.

That's it, really.

To the wild card, Phils.
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Old 02-04-2008, 02:35 PM   #370
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I'm excited to hear the finalised Bedard/Jones deal. If Seattle gets Bedard, it will have a pretty formidable starting rotation (Hernandez, Bedard, Silva, Bautista, and Washburn).
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Old 02-04-2008, 09:01 PM   #371
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Tell me life is not good:

I have spent well over $1000 today.

- Put a deposit down on a place for a reception for our wedding

- Bought a "package" for Sunday games at Reds games that will include the Mets, Cubs, Indians, Red Sox, Phillies, Giants (and a few other teams I could care less about)

- Bought Red Sox tickets for the interleague game against the Brewers (both the Red Sox tickets and the Reds package conveniently fall under the guise of "Birthday presents" for the fiance)

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Old 02-04-2008, 09:57 PM   #372
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Because of ONE Pitcher? That is a bit extreme...I did not realize he could pitch every game.

fourth? They play in the same division as K.C.
And the same division as Cleveland, Detroit and the White Sox...so yes 4th. If the White Sox have a bad year...otherwise its 5th...Royals will be 3rd.
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Old 02-04-2008, 10:00 PM   #373
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Cole Hamels, anyone?

If he plays to his potential, I think he has a shot at being at least as good as Santana this year.
Ahhhh...not so much.
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Old 02-04-2008, 10:00 PM   #374
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...Royals will be 3rd.
Pfft. And the Blue Jays will be first.
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Old 02-04-2008, 10:38 PM   #375
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Ahhhh...not so much.
Bitter?
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