MLB Offseason Thread: 2007-2008

[No spoken words]

That last part is telling....people think Johan is older than he is.

I just feel that Webb is one of the best in the NL, and that makes him part of the "who is better" than Johna discussion. Personally, I take Johan (I think he's the best pitcher in baseball), but if someone said Webb I'd not think they were nuts.

And I still think the big wildcard is how he does in NYC. From all I've observed and read, my gut tells me he'll be just fine, but you never know.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

the new york factor obviously always looms large. but i think having pedro there to take some of the heat off of him is huge.

 

[DaveC]

santana's stats came in a significantly more difficult league and division, playing in a hitter's park.
webb's stats came in a much easier league and mostly bad division, playing in a pitcher's dream park.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor

The fields had nothing to do with it. Shea's only a slight improvement.

 

[speedracer]

Higher park factor = more offensive. (Fenway is at the top of the list.)

By their metric, Shea and the Metrodome are both pitchers' ballparks, the Metrodome more so than Shea. Both should decrease a pitcher's ERA.

Arizona's ballpark ranks as a hitter's ballpark and should increase a pitcher's ERA.

The other factor to consider is the styles of the two pitchers. Johan Santana is more of a flyball pitcher and is affected more by the dimensions of a ballpark than a groundball pitcher like Brandon Webb.

So if you transplant both pitchers onto the New York Mets...well, I have no idea what their ERAs would be; there's a reason Baseball Prospectus charges $40 a year for this information.

 

[Hewson]

you just said john smoltz, at this point in their careers, is better than johan santana, based on a bad month. the only person in that list you gave that you have a real argument for being better than santana is josh beckett.

there is no need to further continue this conversation.

Smoltz retired 4 years ago didn't he??

I mean wow, he is still very good, but several years past his peak. Saying Smoltz is in the argument for "current best pitcher in baseball" is pure folly.

 

[CTU2fan]

Johan is pretty clearly the best pitcher in baseball, though I think the decline in his numbers (though slight) is a bit of a red flag; there's a reason the Twinkies didn't get as much as many thought they would. But it's the NL and I don't see why he won't dominate as long as he doesn't get hurt.

Oh and Donnie Baseball's wife? Yikes...

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor

The fields had nothing to do with it. Shea's only a slight improvement.

right... and according to those highly accurate stats citizen's bank park was only the 14th best hitter's park in baseball last season. uh huh... tell me another one.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor?season=2002

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor?season=2003

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor?season=2004

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor?season=2005

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor?season=2006

there's a variety of factors that go into these stats... but if you average out the years here, rather than just look at last year, you can clearly see that the metrodome is normaly in the top half of the run outage, often in the top 10, while shea is always in the bottom half, often in the bottom 10.

they don't call it the "homer dome" because of the large quantity of groundball outs.

 

[AnnRKeyintheUSA]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...richal.cockfighting.ap/index.html?eref=si_mlb

Dog fighting, now chicken fighting! Will this end Pedro's career?

 

[Hewson]

If its legal in the DR, how will this put an end to Pedro's career exactly?

I wonder if Pedro's cock was little Jerry Seinfeld.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

it certainly doesn't look good, and it will be a bit of a PR issue for Pedro... but the major difference between vick and pedro in this entire thing is that pedro didn't break any laws because it's not illegal in the DR.

if he had done it in, say, washington heights, he'd likely be going to jail... but while it may be immoral, it's not illegal in his country.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

If its legal in the DR, how will this put an end to Pedro's career exactly?

I wonder if Pedro's cock was little Jerry Seinfeld.

i wonder if marichal's cock threw his bat at little jerry seinfeld.

 

[Dusty Bottoms]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...richal.cockfighting.ap/index.html?eref=si_mlb

Dog fighting, now chicken fighting! Will this end Pedro's career?

cocks arent as cute as dogs, so people wont care as much

 

[Hewson]

cocks arent as cute as dogs,

Unless you're John Holmes

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

i honestly don't think it was the dog fighting that made people hate vick... more so the dog drowning and electricuting that did him in.

if it turns out that pedro has been drowning cocks, i'm sure the outrage will be greater.

 

[Hewson]

And if Pedro has been attaching car batteries to his cock for pleasure then I'm sure there'll be outrage.


(Man I'm gonna have a field day with double entendres on this one, lets hope this story has legs)

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

honestly... it's not as if pedro beat his cock and then burried it in the backyard.

 

[Hewson]

Has anyone seen the video?
Who's cock was bigger, Pedro's or Marichal's?

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

marichal's cock had a higher leg kick but pedro's cock changed speeds well.

 

[phanan]

I'm staying out of this one.

 

[CTU2fan]

Wow I checked into this thread expecting discussion of Roger's scabby gauze pads...but nope, instead it's Pedro's cock.

Ya think Pedro's cock could knock down Don Zimmer? How about Karim Garcia?

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

pedro's cock use to be able to dominate for a long time... but as he gets older, i'm afriad he's only a 6 inning cock these days.

need a lot of mop up work for pedro's cock to be succesful.

 

[LarryMullen's POPAngel]

Did someone say cock?

























ok, i'll leave now...

 

[CTU2fan]

Well his cock has to bat now, takes a lot of steam out of it...

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

you ruined it

 

[FullonEdge2]

Ok, so I exaggerated. Santana is more coveted these days than Smoltz, but the fact still remains that even in his old age Smoltz was in the top tier of dominant pitchers last year. It's amazing really.

Why don't Sabathia and Peavy qualify as contenders for the "best current pitcher" award? Obviously they both won Cy Youngs last year and Santana didn't. Is it because of Sabathia's weight? Or the old scouting reports that were sketchy on Peavy?

If you consider Beckett a contender simply because he's been dominant in the postseason, perhaps it should also be recognized that Santana has yet to prove himself in the postseason.

 

[Hewson]

What was bigger, Pedro's cock or the late great Nelson De la Rosa?

 

[FullonEdge2]

And for the record, I think Santana's a great pitcher and obviously a great acquisition for the Mets. I just don't think that because of Santana the NL East should be handed to them on a silver platter just yet.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Ok, so I exaggerated. Santana is more coveted these days than Smoltz, but the fact still remains that even in his old age Smoltz was in the top tier of dominant pitchers last year. It's amazing really.

Why don't Sabathia and Peavy qualify as contenders for the "best current pitcher" award? Obviously they both won Cy Youngs last year and Santana didn't. Is it because of Sabathia's weight? Or the old scouting reports that were sketchy on Peavy?

If you consider Beckett a contender simply because he's been dominant in the postseason, perhaps it should also be recognized that Santana has yet to prove himself in the postseason.

consistancy and length of dominance, combined with age.

beckett's regular season numbers are not as good as santana's, but he's a proven clutch performer. so he enters the conversation the same way smoltz and schilling always had their names in the conversation, even though there were guys with better stats.

santana has been inconsistant in his limited post-season appearances. yes, i will give you that.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

And for the record, I think Santana's a great pitcher and obviously a great acquisition for the Mets. I just don't think that because of Santana the NL East should be handed to them on a silver platter just yet.

when making predictions you're obviously not taking injuries into effect. even the greatest team ever can fall apart if they get hit with a rash of injuries.

but what's lost is that, other than a 3 week stretch of the season at the absolute worst time, the mets dominated the NL East last year. and now they just added the best pitcher in baseball.

that... that's pretty good right there.

 

[FullonEdge2]

that...and you dumped Mota on Milwaukee

and yes, injuries would probably be the reason the Mets don't with the East, if that happens.

on paper, the Mets look the best. I'm still looking forward to watching the Phillies battle though.