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Old 11-23-2005, 12:56 PM   #106
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I wasnt saying Alomar is Ramirez. But Alomar was considered one of the best players in the game when the mets obtained him, which is what Ramirez would be and look how that turned out for the mets.
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Old 11-23-2005, 01:01 PM   #107
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there were signs that alomar was tailing off that were obvious that the mets and met fans just ignored.

no such signs exist with manny ramirez. don't even put them in the same thought.

*edit

and on top of it... roberto alomar was never... NEEEEVER... held in the same esteem that manny ramirez is.
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Old 11-23-2005, 01:16 PM   #108
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"Manny is not returning to Boston," Ortiz told reporters Monday in his native Dominican Republic. "Manny is living through a difficult situation (in Boston) that only he and his family know and he no longer wants to play there."

Ortiz said he spoke to Ramirez last week, before the left fielder left for Brazil, and that Ramirez had told him he wanted to "go to a team in the West."

"I found out that they (the Red Sox) are doing everything possible to trade him," Ortiz added.

It's worth noting that while Ortiz is a great hitter, he isn't always right. This is the same guy who famously had this to say about Pedro Martinez last winter: "Pedro ain't going to no Mets."
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Old 11-23-2005, 01:18 PM   #109
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delgado slammed the mets last year because omar used his latin american heritage to try and get delgado... which is ironicly enough exactly what helped land beltran and pedro.

who knows... delgado has some issues, but he's also supposedly great friends with beltran. so maybe that'll give beltran a kick in the butt, or perhaps they can both stink together.
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Old 11-23-2005, 01:20 PM   #110
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I wonder what Calzone Steinbrenner is thinking as the Red Sox land Josh Beckett and the Mets land Carlos Delgado, and the Yanks have no desirable prospects in their system to pull of these type of deals currently.
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Old 11-23-2005, 01:22 PM   #111
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Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase
there were signs that alomar was tailing off that were obvious that the mets and met fans just ignored.

no such signs exist with manny ramirez. don't even put them in the same thought.

*edit

and on top of it... roberto alomar was never... NEEEEVER... held in the same esteem that manny ramirez is.
Really???????

Check out his stats the last year with cleveland before he came to the mets. It was his best offensive year. No, No I dont agree.

Manny did have one of his lowest BA years and he would not have Ortiz protecting him here, or a great caliber hitter in the lineup like he has had throughout his career.

Again, please don't ignore the fact that I said Alomar was never Ramirez, I understand this, I was just making a point as that a proven commitidy is not always proven until he plays in New York. No one say the problem with Alomar coming, NO ONE.

If I had to choose one of the two in their prime, Ramirez is a no brainer, it was just a comparision. And being a mets fan like yourself a painful one. No one should be compared to Robby in our eyes. haha.

But I see your point, I think I just didn't explain myself properly.
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Old 11-23-2005, 01:22 PM   #112
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Old 11-23-2005, 01:33 PM   #113
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Really???????

Check out his stats the last year with cleveland before he came to the mets. It was his best offensive year. No, No I dont agree.

Manny did have one of his lowest BA years and he would not have Ortiz protecting him here, or a great caliber hitter in the lineup like he has had throughout his career.

Again, please don't ignore the fact that I said Alomar was never Ramirez, I understand this, I was just making a point as that a proven commitidy is not always proven until he plays in New York. No one say the problem with Alomar coming, NO ONE.

If I had to choose one of the two in their prime, Ramirez is a no brainer, it was just a comparision. And being a mets fan like yourself a painful one. No one should be compared to Robby in our eyes. haha.

But I see your point, I think I just didn't explain myself properly.
oh no... you explained yourself prefectly clear.

robbie alomar had a sub par second half of the season the year before the mets traded for him, and cleveland basicly got rid of him for nothing. plus for some reason second basemen just seem to break down earlier. and not for nothing, but his best statistical year was three years before the mets got him.. then he had a crappy year, had a good year right before hte mets got him, but then tailed off considerably upon arriving with the mets.

as for manny... yea, his batting average was low. but that can be attributed to his horrific start last year... by june he was the old manny. the man was an absolute beast down the stretch.

and i'm sorry, i for one believe that manny ramirez will do better without david ortiz than ortiz would do without manny.
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Old 11-23-2005, 01:44 PM   #114
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Manny and his personality could not survive that hoffic start you described if he was a met.

Again you failed to see my point, even when I said I would rather have Manny so I guess Im out of ways to explain that.

How is hitting .336 tailing off. He slugged higher and hit a career high in 3B before coming to the mets. 01 and 99 were his best years and he was a met in 02. He had a great year. There were no signs of his skills diminishing. Again NO ONE saw that.

And what is this for nothing crap. They gave up Alex escobar. Yea he isnt much now but at that time he was considered a young Griffey, He was talked about slightly less than Milledge.

They also gave up Matt Lawton and riggan to get him so it wasnt for nothing.


Now dont tear me a new one for comparing Escobar to Milledge I said slightly less. And you cant look at what Escobar is doing now.





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Old 11-23-2005, 01:47 PM   #115
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they gave up nothing. period.

and i'm sick of hearing about lasting milledge... if the mets really thought lastings milledge was such a great friggin prospect why in the hell did they go out and give carlos beltran 119 million dollars last year?



and the only place that is on par with new york as far as pressure is boston. if manny can survive there, he can survive here.
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Old 11-23-2005, 01:54 PM   #116
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haha.

Calm yourself my friend. We are on the same team here.

Ok, you have a strong case on everything except your last post. Come now, they gave up something to get him. But I guess your def. on nothing is kinda fucked up. The number #1 or #2 two ranked minor leaguers are nothing I guess.

Because the mets want to win now silly billy. They signed Pedro so why wait for Lastings Milledge...OH YEA PEDRO WILL BE RETIRED BY THEN.

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Old 11-23-2005, 02:04 PM   #117
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I agree w/ headache. if you have the opportunity to get manny ramirez - you do it. plain and simple. MONSTER !

When was the last time the Mets had a guy who drove in 145 runs (or 165 for that matter)? the answer is never. So, you figure if the mets got manny, Manny is a year older now, switching leagues, and play half of his games in pitcher friendly Shea stadium, that he would drive in 120 runs and not 160. I'll take it.

PS, Delgado had some insane #s too up in Toronto. I feel that he would/will have a tougher time adjusting to NY then Manny would. Delgado spurned the Mets last year to take a lesser offer from the Fish, made fun of Minaya and his posse, and won't stand for g-d bless america. He better get off to a hot start because he'll get booed louder than Kaz Matsui or Mo Vaughn.
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Old 11-23-2005, 02:05 PM   #118
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haha.

Calm yourself my friend. We are on the same team here.

Ok, you have a strong case on everything except your last post. Come now, they gave up something to get him. But I guess your def. on nothing is kinda fucked up. The number #1 or #2 two ranked minor leaguers are nothing I guess.

Because the mets want to win now silly billy. They signed Pedro so why wait for Lastings Milledge...OH YEA PEDRO WILL BE RETIRED BY THEN.

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Quote:
Perhaps it's because the deal that brought Alomar to the Mets last December was universally regarded as a coup -- practically a street-robbery of the Indians, whose GM, Mark Shapiro, was theoretically fleeced by Steve Phillips.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/columns/klapi...b/1389990.html



and as for your little thing that they signed beltran because of pedro... that's great and all, except for the fact that they signed beltran for 7 years.

so were they waiting for milledge for 7 years?

don't be fooled by the well hyped minor leaguer... if they're really that good, the team will make every opportunity to set up a timetable for that player to arrive at the big dance (unless you're the tampa bay devil rays). so why then, if milledge is the future, would the mets sign a still in his 20s centerfielder... WHEN THEY ALREADY HAD A CENTERFIELDER?

the future for the mets revolves around david wright and jose reyes... not lastings milledge.

checkmate.
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Old 11-23-2005, 02:19 PM   #119
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The comparison of Alomar and Ramirez doensn't work. Why? Because with one glance at Alomar's stats, you can see that he has had two, maybe three excellent years and the rest are above average, but not phenomenal.

One look at Ramirez's stats, and you clearly see that EVERY YEAR he's been in the big leagues from 1995 and on has been incredible. His batting average slipped below .300 last year, but his power numbers went up, so I don't see how that is a sign of him tailing off.
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Old 11-23-2005, 02:24 PM   #120
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Last time I checked there are two other outfield positions my friend. The core has been described as Wright, Reyes, Beltran, Milledge (may hernandez we will have to wait and see).

That article was written after Escobar blew out his knee or whatever sidelined him so yea it looked like a steal........I glad you live in a nice little world whereeverything fits nicely in a box. Oh this guy didnt turn out to be great so its a steal.


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