MLB 2009 Part 3

[Hewson]

I disagree. Hamels has left Manuel with no choice. Pedro's stepped up, Hamels hasn't. Also, I think it's much more important to have Hamels at home than it is to have Pedro at home at this point.

We'll see, but I think Pedro's history in the old Yankee Stadium (which was not good, and this was when he was the best pitcher in baseball by a longshot, not the case currently) combined with the huge advantage for left handed hitters in that ballpark makes having Pedro pitch in Philly the smart move IMO.
Frankly if Dorothy Hamels pitching in Yankme Stadium is such a potential liability, I'd have gone with Happ tonight, then Pedro in game 3, leaving Hamels for game 4.

 

[Hewson]

This thing is over. Phils in 5.

The Phils beat the Yankees' best pitcher and he threw 113 pitches. Have fun with those 3 Sabathia starts, Yankees. .

It amazes me that managers continue to assume just because Chunky Chunky Sabathia weighs 788 pounds that he can throw 100+ pitches constantly on 3 days rest down the stretch and not get fatigued. In 2007 in Cleveland it caught up to him in the playoffs, last year Milwaukee pushed him like an Iditarod sled dpooch and it caught up with him, and now the Yanks are falling into the same pattern. Why do you leave him in for 8 innings in game 4 against the Angies when you are dominating? Now you probably bring him back on 3 days again against a team that hits as well as any, game 4 could be embarassing for the big guy.

That plus Girardi makes some really questionable pitching moves in games where he doesn't have the lead, makes the Phils look pretty solid this morning.

 

[2861U2]

Lee last night was one of the greatest pitching performances I've seen in a long time. I had originally given game 1 to the Yankees, with the Phillies winning all the rest. But now, I think you have to predict a sweep.

 

[Dalton]

Listen all! This is the truth of it. Fightin leads to killin, and killin gets to warrin. And that was damn near the death of us all.

Look at us now! Busted up, and everyone talking about hard rain! But we've learned, by the dust of them all... Bartertown learned. Now, when men get to fightin, it happens here! And it finishes here! Two men enter; one man leaves.

Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls... Dyin' time's here.

 

[GirlsAloudFan]

I think Dalton's finally lost it.

 

[lazarus]

Fuck, Pedro pitches a great game, and still winds up looking like a bitch.

Unfortunate.

And Hamels wouldn't have done any better.

Anyone else agree with the commentators that Manuel should have sent the runners?

 

[phillyfan26]

1. Cut a hole in the box.

2. The Phils rolled 113 pitches up in six innings on CC last night, which was a big help. It's hard to do that again when you've got what amounts to be the biggest fucking strike zone I've ever seen.

3. Laz: No, I don't. Every runner involved was speedy. Plus, Utley could just as easily have hit a line drive and gotten one of them doubled off.

4. Utley was safe.

5. Loaded with great songs

6. Cole Hamels, we need you now.

 

[phanan]

Yeah, you can't blame Pedro for that one. He did well.

 

[lazarus]

4. Utley was safe.

You're really going to bring this up, when the Phils turned a double play on a bounce that was called a fly ball?

 

[phillyfan26]

You're really going to bring this up, when the Phils turned a double play on a bounce that was called a fly ball?

I was saying that only in response to questioning the strategy. Him having beat it out kind of proves what I'm saying about how unlikely it was to turn two on the ground ball: Utley's fast and beats those grounders out.

 

[lazarus]

Rollins is fast, too. A caught line drive isn't as likely as a fieldable grounder.

 

[phillyfan26]

Likely enough that I'm not willing to risk it, personally.

 

[NotBono]

Burnett is very beatable

Oops.

 

[Hewson]

Yeah, you can't blame Pedro for that one. He did well.

With the way Jekyll Burnett pitched last night, only Cliff Lee might have beat him, but...it was the left handed power hitters who were Pedro's demise as I mentioned they might be...and what if Saint Andy Pettitte has a semi rough outing but beats Dorothy Hamels like 7-5 tomorrow...wouldn't it have been better to have Hamels get lit up in Yankee Stadium and lose 7-1 then have Pedro pitch similarly in Philly and win 5-3.
I stick by my assessment that Philly should have started a lefty last night (Hamels or even Happ) and saved righty Pedro for CBP.

 

[Hewson]

Anyone else agree with the commentators that Manuel should have sent the runners?

The worst thing about last night's game was that not once, but twice McCarver looked smarter than the managers/Jeter.

When he said "no way does Jeter bunt with 2 strikes" in the 7th and Jeets proceeds to bunt foul and strike out, McCarver looked smarter than either Girardi (not that difficult) or possibly Jeter (as its likely Jeter was bunting on his own).
Then as you mention, in the 8th when Utley GIDPs when the runners don't go on 3-2, McCarver looks smarter than Manuel for saying prior to the pitch that now you start the runners.

 

[phanan]

With the way Jekyll Burnett pitched last night, only Cliff Lee might have beat him, but...it was the left handed power hitters who were Pedro's demise as I mentioned they might be...and what if Saint Andy Pettitte has a semi rough outing but beats Dorothy Hamels like 7-5 tomorrow...wouldn't it have been better to have Hamels get lit up in Yankee Stadium and lose 7-1 then have Pedro pitch similarly in Philly and win 5-3.
I stick by my assessment that Philly should have started a lefty last night (Hamels or even Happ) and saved righty Pedro for CBP.

This is true.

 

[phillyfan26]

As a manager, you just can't start scheduling starts based on when the opportune time to get lit up is.

The left handed power hitters weren't Pedro's demise; the Phillies offense was Pedro's demise. Pedro pitched a fine game.

 

[lazarus]

The left handed power hitters weren't Pedro's demise; the Phillies offense was Pedro's demise.

This is the bottom line. You can't expect your pitcher to shut the Yankees out. Pedro held them to two runs (or three, depending on who you want to blame), and your batters need to be able to put up more than one themselves.

The fact that they managed to get to Rivera at the end, and almost came back, is a pretty encouraging sign as well. Though I don't know if that opportunity will come again.

 

[Hewson]

As a manager, you just can't start scheduling starts based on when the opportune time to get lit up is.

.

Thats not what I'm saying, I'm just using it as a what if now that the cow has left the barn.

I'm talking arranging your rotation to take advantage of your starters' strengths and mitigate their weaknesses. Basic fact, Yankee Stadium is better suited for LHPs, so when you have a compliment of 3 LH starters, and plenty of time to set your rotation, you set up games 1 & 2 for lefties and have your strongest righty (Mango Tree) start the first game at home (whre his ERA was below 2 right?)

 

[martha]

What the FUCK stupid show is Fox showing during the rain delay??

 

[Hewson]

...and what if Saint Andy Pettitte has a semi rough outing but beats Dorothy Hamels like 7-5 tomorrow...

Or 8-5?
Game, set, match Yanks.
MVP: Charlie Manuel.

 

[MrPryck2U]

This thing is over. Phils in 5.

The Phils beat the Yankees' best pitcher and he threw 113 pitches. Have fun with those 3 Sabathia starts, Yankees. Burnett is very beatable and I think Pettitte is vastly overrated. Hughes has been struggling and the Yankees don't seem to want to give Robertson much late inning work so all you've really got in the bullpen is Rivera.

Jeez, this is gonna be a quick one.

Stick to the pitching, ratboy.

 

[phillyfan26]

I'm talking arranging your rotation to take advantage of your starters' strengths and mitigate their weaknesses. Basic fact, Yankee Stadium is better suited for LHPs, so when you have a compliment of 3 LH starters, and plenty of time to set your rotation, you set up games 1 & 2 for lefties and have your strongest righty (Mango Tree) start the first game at home (whre his ERA was below 2 right?)

The parks are pretty similar as far as lefty vs. righty goes, so I don't really think that had as much of an impact on the decision. They're both small, home run-prone parks. The bottom line is that Burnett threw a game two gem that would have beaten anybody but Lee and Hamels melted down after not getting the Teixeira call in fourth. For the first three innings, it looked like Hamels was really comfortable being at home.

 

[phillyfan26]

But yeah, unless Heavy B pulls a gem out of his chin beard, the Phils are fucked.

 

[Hewson]

The parks are pretty similar as far as lefty vs. righty goes, so I don't really think that had as much of an impact on the decision. They're both small, home run-prone parks. The bottom line is that Burnett threw a game two gem that would have beaten anybody but Lee and Hamels melted down after not getting the Teixeira call in fourth. For the first three innings, it looked like Hamels was really comfortable being at home.

Yankee Stadium favors left handed hitters considerably, that was the entire basis of why I though you hold Pedro till game 3, and use a lefty in game 2.

 

[phillyfan26]

This is the most nervous I've been for a baseball game since Jamie Moyer's start against Tampa last year.

 

[phillyfan26]

It looked like Howard asked the ump if he touched when he first got up. Plus, Posada threw to second immediately, so it's not like Howard couldn't have touched home if he was told he hadn't touched.

 

[speedracer]

Yeah, once the umpire calls him safe, that affects the rest of the play. Replay isn't feasible there.

It was quite impressive that Howard managed to fly completely above the plate though.

 

[phillyfan26]

This is getting ugly.

 

[phillyfan26]

4-4 going into the 9th. Holy shit.