MERGED-->New Battlestar Galactica + the most politically...

[Diemen]

But it's all artists can do, and you have to recognize that this is what motivates all great artists

Actually, no, I don't recognize that. Some great artists are motivated by a desire to improve their world. Most are motivated by the desire to express themselves artistically.

I used to get so excited about politicians changing the world, but I've felt so let down -- most recently by Obama and Clinton -- because they are so tempted to do anything to win. We have to get to the root causes and impoact the underlying culture.
TV and movies have a huge influence in our lives, and have an educational fuction, whether good or bad.

I think you give movies and TV too much weight. I know I don't speak for everyone here, but I know I'm not alone when I say that I can't think of any movie or TV show that has actually changed how I live my life.

Bush's entire conception of machismo comes from TV, movies and stereotypes about what a man or leader should be that have been spread through media.

That's an awfully big assumption to make, and one I don't really agree with. I feel his machismo comes more from his own inner stubborness and refusal to see the other side than it does from any entertainment he may have watched.

Fictional notions of good versus evil are what has led to a far more brutal US policy than would otherwise occur.

I don't entirely disagree with you here, but

These shows fight against that supposition and provide a new form of understanding...

These shows are among the very few that can help reverse the decades of damage from natioanalist TV. It may be a small part of the puzzle, but it's something, and it's something unquestionably positive, and I believe in these writers for doing this, and I support them in their quest

First, there are far worse things contributing to our foreign policy blunders than fictional notions of good and evil. Unfortunate stereotypes from entertainment sources are not our main concern in this area (and are at best an extremely minor contributor). Again, you give entertainment, especially weekly, fictional TV series waaaay too much importance.

Secondly, BSG is not the first show to explore and question the human condition. It's not as if there was a black hole of intelligent TV prior to BSG. So I don't buy this "new form of understanding" you seem to think it provides. Is it a good thing that BSG promotes looking at the world with a critical but balanced eye? Undoubtedly yes. But do you honestly think that everyone who watches BSG transforms their world view because of it? Undoubtedly no. I'd even go so far as to say the majority don't. In fact, I think the majority of people who watch BSG already agree with the social commentary being made.

As for their "quest," what quest? Do you really believe the writers are out there trying to change the world, one show at a time? A minor shift in perspective may be a side effect of good writing, but if you're really honest here, changing the world is not the reason they're doing this show, because, quite frankly, you'd have to be delusional to believe that a weekly TV series would have the power to do that.

What I said to Mr. Lanois was not futile. It was a fan of art communicating to an artist how much that art had affected him. I'm quite sure he understood very well how important that motivation was. And I think U2 would fall in love with these shows and it might help them write better, more complexely true lyrics. In this way, the message of one medium would affect another. U2 often have literary and film inspirations for their songs. What I did was completely rational and I'm proud I did it.

BVS covered this already, but do you really think BSG is in the same level of inspiration as the references that often pop up in their work? Do you really think that BSG is so relevatory that Bono is suddenly going to write more complex lyrics for watching it? That's just plain unrealistic.

It's an outstanding tv show, without a doubt. But to think it could somehow be our cultural savior if only more people watched it is just ridiculous.

 

[Dalton]

There was a few week period when I was a boy that a stray dog was hanging around our house. It was a mangy little dog that would NOT stop barking. No matter what we did, the dog would not leave our yard. We would yell at it, spray it with a hose, and once I even threw a stick at it. It would run away for a little while, but it would always return to our yard.

We finally realized that the dog wouldn't leave because my little brother was secretly feeding it. We made him promise not to feed the dog and it eventually left.

[/George Santayana]

 

[Muldfeld]

Battlestar Galactica selling for 28.49 on Amazon.com, Today (Friday November 9th) only!

http://www.amazon.com/Battlestar-Ga...4-4393574?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1194632881&sr=1-2

Also, the soundtracks for the show, sometimes filed under "classical music" on Amazon, are great, especially Season 2, and Season 3 should be out soon.

 

[Muldfeld]

Well, Diemen, I think you grossly generalize what I'm trying to say, and I know these writers quite well. I've read their interviews. I know the things they care about. However, just as Bono is motivated to experss himself artistically to change the world through his art, so are they. I think it's one more means of essential cultural change and people often idolize what they encounter culturally. George W. Bush's stubbornness doesn't come out of nowhere and it's partially influenced by the idea that that's what a leader does, and he's gotten at least part of this from a simplistic kind of TV/movie fiction.

BSG, DS9 and The 4400 ARE the first to talk about the causes of terrorism intelligently as well as a host of other issues. These things affect the culture at a small but undoubtedly positive way. It may take a long time, but it's one more thing working -- TRYING -- to make the world better by trying to be more realistic about the nature of our problems instead of simplistic, and that's revolutionary when it comes to TV. These are the most politically insightful shows in the history of American pop culture.

I feel the same way about movies like "Bable". Why is it that people always point to the propaganda films of the Third Reich in Nazi Germany as important in affecting German thinking or to the 1940s and on US propaganda by that shaped nationalism in America as negatively influential, but not you guys when it comes to positive change. The DoD has spent a lot of energy cultivating a positive impression of its armed forces through TV and film. They often censored scripts and had script approval of TV and movies that wanted free access to their materiel because they wanted the public to have a positive impression and wanted a endless supply of volunteer recruits who wanted to "be all that you can be". Films like "Top Gun" and all those video games were felt to encourage enlistment, as opposed to non-DoD aided films like "Apolcalypse Now". Tv and movies shape the culture, and the government believes this, too. It's even more essential when it comes to defining "the other" -- including those who engaged in terrorism that are often assumed to be barbaric, while those who wage war are depicted as civilized.

I don't know why you're so negative about what I'm trying to do. You're like an Ian McCulloch to my Bono or something. The folks on this board think being cynical is so cool. Thanks for trying to put me in my place, man. I know the writers of these shows and many of the actors agree with me, so I guess you should put them in theirs, too. By the way, are you doing ANYTHING to help this show out? Or are you just downloading or DVRing like most of the fans, leading to the show's early demise?

So you're putting this TV show up there with the Bible, Brukowski, Ginsberg, Wenders, Lewis, and the other great writers and movies Bono's listed as inspiration over the years?

You're talking about a band that has traveled the world, has seen a lot more than you and I, have talked to some of the greater minds of our town, have hung out with legends, have talked to world leaders... and you still think this sci-fi TV show is going to shape their world?

I'm sorry but it's laughable. You're projecting your small understanding of the world onto their lives.

It's okay. People laughed at Bono, too. Your small understanding of this piece of art, which is greater than any political insight U2 has provided -- save "Please" -- could benefit them greatly. I'm sure they'd love the show and consider it a great contribution to world culture. Just because you've labelled it "sci-fi" doesn't mean it's less important than the great fictional works of our time, espeically in the medium of TV and movies. U2 watch TV and movies all the time for inspiration.

So, you'll pardon me if I don't think you're sorry, as you've been on my case for a while with consistent bullying.

 

[BVS]

I don't know why you're so negative about what I'm trying to do. You're like an Ian McCulloch to my Bono or something. The folks on this board think being cynical is so cool. Thanks for trying to put me in my place, man. I know the writers of these shows and many of the actors agree with me, so I guess you should put them in theirs, too. By the way, are you doing ANYTHING to help this show out? Or are you just downloading or DVRing like most of the fans, leading to the show's early demise?

Firstly, get the dellusion out of your mind that you know the writers, knowing their work and reading interviews doesn't mean you know them as people. Secondly, where do you get off being so condescending? Fans watch shows, that's what they do, that's what makes a TV show. They don't all have to be disciples.

It's okay. People laughed at Bono, too. Your small understanding of this piece of art, which is greater than any political insight U2 has provided -- save "Please" -- could benefit them greatly. I'm sure they'd love the show and consider it a great contribution to world culture. Just because you've labelled it "sci-fi" doesn't mean it's less important than the great fictional works of our time, espeically in the medium of TV and movies. U2 watch TV and movies all the time for inspiration.

So, you'll pardon me if I don't think you're sorry, as you've been on my case for a while with consistent bullying.

Greater than any political insight U2 has provided? What drugs are you taking? First how are you going to compare a TV series to 4 minute pop songs? One has hours to get a point across one has 4 minutes. U2 has done some amazing things bringing political insight to fans, so I'm not sure where you've been.

Bullying? You come off with this arrogance and I'm the bully? Wow.

 

[Bonochick]

I think that we need to get back on topic, which is discussiong Battlestar Galactica...and do so nicely, please.

Any other conversations/issues can be dealt with in private, please.

 

[Diemen]

By the way, are you doing ANYTHING to help this show out? Or are you just downloading or DVRing like most of the fans, leading to the show's early demise?

When it's on TV, I watch the show. If I can't watch it when it's on, I DVR it (I wasn't aware that was a no-no). I generally don't launch huge evangelistic campaigns over the entertainment I enjoy.

Just because you've labelled it "sci-fi" doesn't mean it's less important than the great fictional works of our time, espeically in the medium of TV and movies.

I never labeled it "sci-fi" though you would be foolish to think the label doesn't apply. Does it accurately summarize what the show is about? No, not at all. Is it the most appropriate genre to give it? Given the stigma the genre has, no, but science fiction is a big component of the show. The broader "drama" genre is definitely more appropriate given the themes, storylines and quality of the show, but hey, I'm just glad it's on tv, even if it is the Sci-Fi network that airs it. If we were to come up with a phrase that accurately summarized it, I think it would probably be the largest string of words connected by hyphens we've ever seen.

 

[lazarus]

By the way, are you doing ANYTHING to help this show out? Or are you just downloading or DVRing like most of the fans, leading to the show's early demise?

Why should I watch this show on Sci-Fi instead of downloading it? Fuck them. They have no respect for the fans, and don't deserve the viewership. I don't think it's going to affect the future of the show, as it still does better than most of what's on there anyway, and the DVDs sell well (I own both Season Two boxed sets).

What's sad is that in theory the channel is such a great idea. If they actually showed the best of what the genre had to offer (old episodes of Dr. Who, various Star Trek incarnations, X-Files, etc.) I'd watch it all the time. But they don't, so I don't. They make made-for-TV crap like "Man-squito" (is there anyone who actually likes this shit?!), or turn great source material like Riverworld or Earthsea into travesties.

Maybe if they went out of business something better will come along. With the exception of Galactica, the BBC is doing better work within the genre anyway, and they're not starved for viewers.

 

[corianderstem]

The TV industry has to face facts and come to grip with the facts that more and more people watch television shows in other formats than in "real time" on their TVs.

If they don't, they'll end up looking like the record companies, refusing to accept the fact that technology is changing things, and they need to get with the times.

 

[LMP]

Why should I watch this show on Sci-Fi instead of downloading it? Fuck them. They have no respect for the fans, and don't deserve the viewership. I don't think it's going to affect the future of the show, as it still does better than most of what's on there anyway, and the DVDs sell well (I own both Season Two boxed sets).

What's sad is that in theory the channel is such a great idea. If they actually showed the best of what the genre had to offer (old episodes of Dr. Who, various Star Trek incarnations, X-Files, etc.) I'd watch it all the time. But they don't, so I don't. They make made-for-TV crap like "Man-squito" (is there anyone who actually likes this shit?!), or turn great source material like Riverworld or Earthsea into travesties.

Maybe if they went out of business something better will come along. With the exception of Galactica, the BBC is doing better work within the genre anyway, and they're not starved for viewers.

I love randomly finding a Baldwin brother in one of those movies though. That makes it all worth-while.

As for the BBC: Torchwood, ftw?

 

[lazarus]

LOVE Torchwood. Apparently we're in the minority as I've seen a lot of people bagging on it.

Have you seen the new Doctor Who as well, LMP?

 

[LMP]

LOVE Torchwood. Apparently we're in the minority as I've seen a lot of people bagging on it.

Have you seen the new Doctor Who as well, LMP?

I've seen a few episodes, but I always end up forgetting when they're on. It's a fun show.

 

[Dalton]

I really thought that the story about my brother and the dog would kill this thread off?

 

[No spoken words]

I really thought that the story about my brother and the dog would kill this thread off?

You act like your stories are as influential as BSG is.

Fool.

Oh, did Sci-Fi ever fuck Earthsea up. I read an interview with LeGuin and she just could not hold back her ire towards the producers. What a butcher job.

 

[Dalton]

NSW, I urge you to proselytize all that you meet to take my words as gospel. Everyone needs a cause.

 

[lazarus]

I've seen a few episodes, but I always end up forgetting when they're on. It's a fun show.

Torchwood is even better when you know where Capt. Jack came from, as he was introduced in the first season of New Who.

Have you seen all of Torchwood Season One? It would suck to see the finale without the end of New Who season 1, which is a nice set-up to what happens.

DW is usually more tongue-in-cheek, but at its darkest it rivals the tone of TW.

Episodes from the new seasons I'd recommend:

S1:
The Unquiet Dead
Father's Day
The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances (2 parter)
Bad Wolf/Parting of the Ways (2 Parter that shows the last of Jack before Torchwood)

S2:
School Reunion
The Girl in the Fireplace
The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit (2 parter)
Army of Ghosts/Doomsday (2 parter)

S3:
Gridlock
The Lazarus Experiment (no relation )
Human Nature/The Family of Blood (2 parter)
Blink
Utopia/The Sound of Drums/Last of the Timelords (3 parter featuring Capt. Jack's return)

 

[No spoken words]

If I only knew you well enough to determine your real intentions. You'd think meeting people in person, talking to them, etc, would be the thing that allows you to actually know people.....Wait, reading a few of your posts ought to suffice, screw it.

Consider me your acolyte.

 

[No spoken words]

Lazarus, did you read the Earthsea novels?

 

[LMP]

Torchwood is even better when you know where Capt. Jack came from, as he was introduced in the first season of New Who.

Have you seen all of Torchwood Season One? It would suck to see the finale without the end of New Who season 1, which is a nice set-up to what happens.

DW is usually more tongue-in-cheek, but at its darkest it rivals the tone of TW.

Episodes from the new seasons I'd recommend:

S1:
The Unquiet Dead
Father's Day
The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances (2 parter)
Bad Wolf/Parting of the Ways (2 Parter that shows the last of Jack before Torchwood)

S2:
School Reunion
The Girl in the Fireplace
The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit (2 parter)
Army of Ghosts/Doomsday (2 parter)

S3:
Gridlock
The Lazarus Experiment (no relation )
Human Nature/The Family of Blood (2 parter)
Blink
Utopia/The Sound of Drums/Last of the Timelords (3 parter featuring Capt. Jack's return)

Awesome, I'll check those out after I catch up on Heroes and Always Sunny. Thanks.

 

[No spoken words]

LMP's list of things to watch, read, do, etc, is insanely long, thanks to interference. Aren't you glad that you belong to an internet community, you little bastard?

 

[lazarus]

Lazarus, did you read the Earthsea novels?

I bought the first one way back in high school but never read it, though I've recently become interested in LeGuin after seeing Miyazaki Jr.'s adaptation of Earthsea, which I thought was actually very good (apparently it wasn't received very well). I recently acquired the rest of the trilogy and her award-winning classic The Left Hand of Darkness, so I should be caught up soon.

Did you see the anime? It's not available in the U.S. yet because Sci-Fi still has the rights until 2009 or something (another reason to hate them), but I managed to find a download with passable (but often laughable) English subtitles.

 

[No spoken words]

I did not see the anime, but, want to.

The Left Hand of Darkness is a special book, in or out of genre.

 

[phanan]

This doesn't sound very promising...

Losing battle

’Razor’ just won’t cut it for ’Galactica’ fans
By Mark A. Perigard

Monday, November 12, 2007

BATTLESTAR GALACTICA: RAZOR: C+

"Battlestar Galactica: Razor" plants a wet kiss on its most-devoted fans -- and turns a cold shoulder to everyone else.

The 90-minute film, which gets special screenings tonight at select theaters across the country (fans had to preregister on the Web for the free showings, and the Boston-area screenings are filled), is a mash of flashbacks within flashbacks.

Devoted fans will soak up the back story on Galactus rival ship Pegasus, her tyrannical commander Admiral Cain (Michelle Forbes) and the early adventures of young Adama (Nico Cortez) during the first Cylon war some decades earlier.

Newcomers will be lost in space. Even casual viewers will wonder: What the frak is going on?

"Razor" opens some time in the past with Lee Apollo Adama (Jamie Bamber) assuming command of the battle-scarred Pegasus and confronting an insubordinate officer, Lt. Kendra Shaw (Stephanie Jacobsen).

Flashbacks cut to Shaw’s first moments on the Pegasus just as the Cylons launched their attack on the colonies. In the wake of the devastation, Cain vows revenge. As Shaw advances within Cain’s inner circle, Cain demonstrates her ruthlessness on friend and foe alike. Shaw accepts Cain’s methods, even though her service takes an ugly emotional toll.

Meanwhile, Apollo’s search and rescue mission takes a deadly turn when the Pegasus comes across an old Cylon base guarding a project that raises painful memories for Apollo’s father, Admiral William Adama (Edward James Olmos). With Shaw and Starbuck (Katee Sackhoff) trapped and under fire from centurions (the original metal Cylons from the ’70s series), Apollo orders a nuclear strike.

"Razor" stretches its tiny cable budget to produce some effective special effects. The shots of Cylon ships swooping in like hawks to blast the fleet are impressively frightening.

But the story is so dark and convoluted, the emotional territory so familiar, it reinforces "Battlestar’s" reputation as the Sylvia Plath of science fiction.

"Razor’s" final moments offer an ominous hint about one major character that will have repercussions in "Battlestar’s" final season, set to begin airing in April. That slim payoff will satisfy only die-hard fans.

Sneak previews Monday night at Regal Fenway Stadium and AMC Framingham.

Airs on the Sci Fi Channel Nov. 24.

 

[lazarus]

Sounds promising to me; dark, emotional, and not for casual fans are all positives where I'm concerned.

 

[phanan]

It's the convoluted part that worries me. Hopefully this guy has no clue (and since it's the Boston Herald, that could very well be).

 

[UberBeaver]

I like what I read.

 

[Muldfeld]

I'm avoiding reviews because I don't want to know anything. I wish I didn't even know the basic cast. I love going in ignorant and then being surprised! IGN gave it a 9 out of 10. Michael Taylor wrote it and is a great writer. What could have happened is Felix Alcala messed it up because the entire cast hated him (and I hated his work on the rushed "Exodus") because he never considered their feelings about character and just had them shoot quickly. Ron Moore made a huge mistake because Lee Adama, Helo and other actors really seemed to detest him in the roundtable podcast from November 2006!

The TV industry has to face facts and come to grip with the facts that more and more people watch television shows in other formats than in "real time" on their TVs.

If they don't, they'll end up looking like the record companies, refusing to accept the fact that technology is changing things, and they need to get with the times.

Ron Moore has said this, and it's all fine and dandy to say this, but we suffer if the shows we love aren't financially supported either through our watching them live or buying the DVDs. Illegal downloading with no intent to purchase is the death of great art! Often people download, and then say, "I'll get it later." Then the show gets cancelled and people are upset. We have to do our part! It's much more likely that companies will resort to more commercial and obvious common-denominator TV in the absense of easy ratings. So, in the short-run (and that's all I give a darn about), we lose if we're stubborn.

Why should I watch this show on Sci-Fi instead of downloading it? Fuck them. They have no respect for the fans, and don't deserve the viewership. I don't think it's going to affect the future of the show, as it still does better than most of what's on there anyway, and the DVDs sell well (I own both Season Two boxed sets).

The basic issue is that the ratings have to be high enough to allow Sci Fi to get the advertizing revenue to pay for the show. If you have a Nielsen's box, and aren't watching the show live, you're not doing your part to keep the show on the air, and are actually the reason it's being ended early.

Downloading without any recompense for the effort that went into creating the art is stealing. If people buy the DVDs that's fair, but if people download, don't watch it on air if they have a Nielsen box and don't pay for the DVDs through purchase or rental, they're the reason the show is coming to an end.

Unlke rock bands that don't need much money to continue to create art, TV shows need vast amounts of cash. Fans who aren't willing to do their part are just shooting themselves and the rest of us fans in the foot.

So Sci Fi isn't perfect. So what? It's a hell of a lot better than the major networks which would never have allowed this show to be so politically-insightful or challenging. Ron Moore has never been censored by the network, while Ira Steven Behr is constantly censored by USA on The 4400.

I hated Fox, but they showed The X-Files and Millennium, so I did my part. People have to do their part, and part of that will be to please buy the Razor DVD if you want more TV movies because Universal put up the money, not Sci Fi, and Ron Moore says there's a limited time after the series ends during which the sets are available to produce more. Or, if you've never seen the show, this is a chance to check it out to see if you like it.

I don't know about you, but I'd love to see more of what happened on New Caprica or more dramatic stories and less action-driven stuff.

 

[LMP]

Wasn't it up to the creators of the show to end it while Sci-Fi doesn't want to let it die?

So you want to prolong the ending or what? I don't get it.

 

[Diemen]

No, no, it wasn't up to the creators. It was because the fans Tivo'd it instead of clearing their schedule to sit down for an hour every week (regardless of their schedules) and watch the tv show complete with commercials. It's also because we haven't gobbled up everything BSG in consumer goods that the show is being cancelled.

Had you all not been so greedy and just bought everything available and sat down at the scheduled time, maybe this show wouldn't be doomed. Your duty as a fan is to do everything possible to make sure the show continues, and quite obviously you've failed.

 

[LMP]

This was supposed to change the world and we've all failed.

Now Ted's going to that military school in Alaska. Thanks, guys.