MERGED ---> Michael Jackson + Jacko

[U2Kitten]

If he's so 'mentally ill' maybe he shouldn't be in control of his own life, or anyone else's, especially not children. If he has never been diagnosed or treated, there is no telling just how bad this could get. I have to believe if it were truly a 'sickness' someone would have had him put away by now, or he'd at least have a guardian in control of his private affairs. If he was in his right mind and consented to the documentary, which from what I've heard took days to film, he has no right to complain now. He knew what was going on. I'd say he had no problem with it and might even have been proud of his performance or he would have tried to stop it sooner. He never whined about his 'unfair treatment' until he saw what people were saying about it after it was on TV. That's why I don't buy it.

 

[meegannie]

You obviously don't have anyone close to you who has a mental illness.

 

[EPandAmerica]

It was filmed over a period of eight months.

 

[meegannie]

It was filmed over a period of eight months.

and....?

 

[daisybean]

I think EPandAmerica was clarifying what U2Kitten said

which from what I've heard took days to film

 

[meegannie]

Ah, okay. Thanks! I was just thoroughly

 

[U2Kitten]

EIGHT MONTHS??!! Goodness gracious, you'd think in all that time surely he or somebody close to him would have stopped this if they had a problem anything that was going on, don't you think?

 

[meegannie]

That's the thing, though. I think he truly thought this interview would make people understand him and stop saying such horrible things about him.

 

[verte76]

I didn't see the documentary so I probably shouldn't say a damn thing. But I'm not sure I should believe the things he says. No, no, no........

 

[verte76]

It's one thing to sleep in the same bed with your own child, but to "sleep" with a 12 year old not related to you?!?!?!?!?!?!

I'm sorry, I know I shouldn't judge, but there is something clearly wrong with that man.

Yeah. This stuff is disturbing.

 

[verte76]

snip
So great is the power that Jacko wields, especially in his own camp, that no one in his entourage dared suggest that the baby-over-the-balcony episode was "ludicrous and dangerous," says Bashir, who visited Jacko in his hotel room just 30 minutes after the incident.

Certainly, Jackson saw nothing irresponsible in his actions.

The fans outside his hotel room "were chanting they want to see the baby," Jackson tells Bashir. "So, I wanted to show them the baby."

snip

Damn. So this is the infamous "baby hanging" episode.

 

[meegannie]

I don't think the stuff with the 12-year-old is disturbing at all.

 

[Angela Harlem]

Its such a grey area this sleeping with the 12 year old business. I guess people can't get past the Michael Jackson element to the situation. So take him out for a sec, is there something wrong with a 44(?) year old man sleeping in the same room or even bed as a 12 year old boy? Our cynical society immediately assumes it is bad as that indicates the possibility of inappropriate behaviour. If there is absolutely no inappropriate behabviour, is it still wrong? If it is, is it because of age? Why age, if that is the case? Is it different from sleeping in the same bed as a friend? Many people do this for whatever reason and dont bat an eye. Is it gender? Because we are talking about a prepubescent boy and a grown man? What if it was a 44 year old woman and a 12 year old girl? Is it because we think he has a mental illness? Consider that mental illness is not a precursor for abusing children. All these rhetorical questions, but how many of us consider this before we pass judgement on him? I believe too often, MJ is the accused simply because he is MJ, not because people have thought about the situation for its worth. Sorry if this sounds patronising as I'm not referring to people here, its the media, society in general, no, more the media who are responsible for bringing us the news, then society for interpreting it.
And what of a mental illness. People go entire lifetimes undiagnosed. The last figures I believe for here were 1 in 10 people suffer one form or another. What happened to compassion and tolerance for those who do suffer one? Statistically, there would be a few Interferencers here with one. We dont just 'put them away'. We dont pass such quick judgement on those 1 in 10, but we do with MJ, and its because he is a public figure, and we dont know him, so we dont have to realise how misguided and unfair it actually is. We dont know him so we dont have to use tolerance and compassion here.
Its wrong.

*the 'we' in my post, again, was not at us in this thread but society and media.

 

[meegannie]

Excellent post, Angela Harlem.

I'm just really depressed by the fact that our society immediately makes sleeping in the same room or even bed as a child into something sinister. No wonder kids today grow up too fast.

 

[U2Kitten]

Excellent post, Angela Harlem.

I'm just really depressed by the fact that our society immediately makes sleeping in the same room or even bed as a child into something sinister. No wonder kids today grow up too fast.

Not me. I come from a family where everyone took the babies into bed to keep them from crying. Most people in my family let kids sleep in the bed often and there is NOTHING wrong with it in most situations. We should NOT assume everybody has a dirty mind, because believe it or not you can sleep in the bed with kids and nothing goes on. My aunt slept with her son until he was in middle school. Nothing 'dirty' ever entered their minds. Not everyone is a molester, true. I think people should take their kids into the bed instead of letting them 'scream it out' in the other room. The kids in my family who slept with their parents had few nightmares, never wetted the bed, never sucked their thumbs and got a good night's sleep. That's much better than trying to teach them some kind of lesson.

But, it should go on a case by case basis, and in Michael Jackson's case, he seems so weird, and borderline 'mentally ill' that it's probably not a good idea, and if he does do it, don't put it on TV for millions to see. In his case, it's just creepy and asking for trouble. I don't know why you defend him so vehemently. If it's based on the experience of someone you know, that's THEM, we don't really know about him.

That's the thing, though. I think he truly thought this interview would make people understand him and stop saying such horrible things about him.

I think that too. BUT if he has no better judgement and rationality than that, it only proves he cannot be trusted to make the right decision. It all gives me the shivers.

 

[meegannie]

If it's based on the experience of someone you know, that's THEM, we don't really know about him.

Exactly. You don't know him. So what gives you the right to judge?

I'm not defending him. I don't know him either. It just makes me sick to read people say things like people with a mental illness should be "put away."

Imagine it was someone in your family or a close friend of yours. What would you do?

 

[U2Kitten]

Exactly. You don't know him. So what gives you the right to judge?

Because he has put himself on public display and asked for it, over and over again.

Imagine it was someone in your family or a close friend of yours. What would you do?

Truthfully, if I had a 44 friend or relative who regularly invited over prepubescent boys to sleep in his bed, and had a painting on the wall of him surrounded by cherubs, and dangled his baby over the balcony with a veil on, I would do everthing I could to protect the kids. Of course you don't ever want to call the authorities and get the person in trouble, but I'd work behind the scenes to discourage such behavior. I would also have a talk with him, if he were close to me, about how most people don't approve of his activities and maybe he should stop it for his own good. You cannot expect to go on like that and not set yourself up to be accused of things. I'd say make sure someone is in the house at all times to 'chaperone' things and make sure he doesn't cross the line, but as rich as he is, he could pay people off. I wonder if maybe some of the parents of the kids he 'sleeps' with aren't hoping something might go down so they can take advantage of Michael and his $$$$$. They are as much to blame as anybody. I'd never let my kid spend the night with somebody who has been known to display unusual behavior.

I'm not saying anyone should take HIS kids away, but they should have another guardian in the house besides him. I also think this would be a different story if his kids were older and these kids were spending the night as a guest of his children. It's that they're HIS guests that makes it so worrysome. Rich or poor, famous or not famous, plastic surgery or no, it is just plain inappropriate for a 44 year old man to want to sleep with someone's kids.

 

[meegannie]

You can't just tell a person with a mental illness to stop what they're doing. They're not going to go, "Oh, shit. You're right. What was I thinking?!" It doesn't work like that. They see nothing wrong with their behaviour and can't understand why other people don't think the way they do.

 

[Desire4Bono]

You can't just tell a person with a mental illness to stop what they're doing. They're not going to go, "Oh, shit. You're right. What was I thinking?!" It doesn't work like that. They see nothing wrong with their behaviour and can't understand why other people don't think the way they do.

THEN GET THE KIDS OUT OF HIS BED!!

Do you want another bunch of kids growing up with problems? It is very likely they will growing up like that. I'm not even talking about sexual abuse, just the whole freaky setup. It's just something that should not be allowed to happen. I am very worried about the kids and we can't just brush this off with If he has a different way of thinking and you can't convince him he's wrong that is all the more reason to shudder at all of this. If you feel so sorry for him, feel sorry for the kids and what mental problems they may grow up with because of this. You can't just say, maybe not, because chances are they will. Why even take a chance? This is a red flag emergency. I feel more sorry for the children than him! They are the ones who deserve all the pity!

 

[meegannie]

WHY? You haven't given ONE reason why this is wrong.

 

[Desire4Bono]

I already said, I'm worried the kids will grow up with emotional problems and become weirdos who don't know any better and can't understand why people don't think the same way they do. If his condition is so worthy of pity, have some for the kids instead.

Read this court document of a boy who was a regular visitor to Neverland:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/mjdec1.html

It's four pages long, don't miss any of them, especially not the explicit details on page 3.

 

[meegannie]

If you don't see what's wrong with it, maybe you have a problem too.

There is ABSOLUTELY no reason for you to be that rude and to make this personal.

I am NOT saying that sexual contact with a child is not wrong. The assumption in this argument, however, is that there is no inappropriate or sexual contact. If that's the case, what is morally wrong about a 12 year old boy sleeping in the same room or bed as a grown man?

By the way, I don't even like Michael Jackson or his music. I just have a problem with some of the comments that have been made here regarding mental illness.

 

[Desire4Bono]

if you'll notice that, I regretted that immediately and edited my post. Sorry.

I still feel the same way about Jackson though.

 

[meegannie]

I was replying in light of Angela Harlems post, which begins with "taking Michael Jackson out of the equation." As I said, I can't stand him OR his music.

I just think some people here are being incredibly judgmental regarding mental illness and not giving any rationale for their statements.

 

[verte76]

I was replying in light of Angela Harlems post, which begins with "taking Michael Jackson out of the equation." As I said, I can't stand him OR his music.

I just think some people here are being incredibly judgmental regarding mental illness and not giving any rationale for their statements.

I just wish the guy would go to a shrink. He'd be doing himself and alot of other people a big favor.

 

[jkayet]

We dont just 'put them away'. We dont pass such quick judgement on those 1 in 10, but we do with MJ, and its because he is a public figure, and we dont know him, so we dont have to realise how misguided and unfair it actually is. We dont know him so we dont have to use tolerance and compassion here.
Its wrong.

I agree. I didn't see the special, so I can't comment directly on that, but just following this line of argument, I'm disregarding the fact that it's MJ and just looking at the situation. I mean, everybody has their views of him, mostly negative, although who really knows the person behind the public persona? Anyway, the situation - I don't think a 44 yr old man sleeping in the same room/bed as a child is necessarily wrong, unless something can be proven. A person giving children extravagance and a different type of world isn't bad - maybe different, but not bad. It is an innocent act in and of itself. The mental health aspect is something I think you just realize with time and experience in life. As I've gotten older, I've realized that I can never truly understand where someone else is coming from, but that doesn't make the way they live their life and the way they try to create happiness wrong. Everyone has issues, and it's just a matter of dealing with those issues - it might make them different, difficult to understand, etc, but NOT criminal. And I don't know who the parents of all these children are, but they certainly weren't kidnapped and held against their will. (at least I don't think so, I haven't heard to the contrary)
Just knowing what I do know about MJ, it seems he was deprived of his own childhood, and might be trying to live in that now. Strange? Maybe....but it certainly doesn't make him wrong. Saying all this, I"m NOT a fan of the man at all, but the point of all this was to NOT look at him...just get rid of the preconceived notions of him and open up my mind a bit. Of course, anyone who harms children is sick and needs serious help, but that's just not something I'd want to just assume about someone.

 

[Desire4Bono]

I just think some people here are being incredibly judgmental regarding mental illness and not giving any rationale for their statements.

So I see you haven't bothered to read the article I posted. If #10, page 3 isn't 'rationale' enough for you, nothing ever will be. Read it. The kid said Michael put his tongue in his mouth, and he told him there was nothing wrong with that, just because other people think it is doesn't make it so! SO if he feels that way, and uses his twisted logic to influence children, is that not enough reason to keep them away from him?

I would also like to address the mentally ill thing. Nowhere has he, his family, his people or even the media ever said or even suggested this. It is all YOUR assumption which you tell for the truth and base your position on. It might not even be true. Maybe he is just an immature freak with a weird mind. Either way,

GET THE KIDS OUT OF THE FREAKING BED ALREADY!!!!!!!!!


Angela Harlem: So now we have to spread that 'tolerance' to those who are possibly damaging others? If you want to feel sorry for him, have fun. You may 'tolerate' the way he is but he still should not be free to do just anything he chooses. If there is any 'compassion' to be given out, save it for the kids, not him!

WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE ALREADY!! He's a 44 year old man who sleeps with children instead of women. He needs to be stopped. Please, care more about the kids than him. They are young and impressionable and in danger of growing up disturbed. Don't let that happen just because you pity Michael Jackson!

 

[Desire4Bono]

Oh I forgot. Everyone's a victim these days. A bad childhood excuses everything.

 

[meegannie]

I read the article. That story is ten years old. No one knows if it's true or not. And it's COMPLETELY irrelevant to this discussion, because I was saying FORGET that it's Michael Jackson.

No one ever said a bad childhood excuses everything.

As I said, I DON'T like him!! I think someone SHOULD make sure his kids are okay. This has NOTHING to do with that.

 

[Laura M]

you are all so mad



I think Meggys just getting at the whole treatment towards ppl with mental illness in general not wacko cus she said she didnt like him 40000 times

You shouldnt believe everyhting you read and ppl might be making stuff up in the hope to get loot from Michael

I dont think hes "sleeping" with children instead of women I really think he means no harm by it but it is quite strange