MERGED--> Lost Season 4

[joyfulgirl]

So I'm confused about Jin. The date on his tombstone was the date of the plane crash. I guess I'm supposed to be confused.

 

[medmo]

So we've got Hurley, Jack, Kate, Sayid, and Sun. One more to go.

If you count Aaron (if that actually is Aaron that Kate had in her episode), then that is six. Not sure how the writers would spin including him as one of the six, though.

 

[lazarus]

You do not count Aaron. He was not a passenger on the plane that crashed, wouldn't be on the manifest, and wouldn't be known as one of the rescued missing to the public.

 

[lazarus]

So I'm confused about Jin. The date on his tombstone was the date of the plane crash. I guess I'm supposed to be confused.

You know, that's a very interesting point. There's a possibility that Jin is not dead, and has only been reported as so because he's still alive on the island (whether she knows this or not). It would give Sun an incentive to return there with Jack in Season 5.

Hmmm...

 

[U2DMfan]

It's too obvious for him to be in the coffin, just because the funeral party appeared to be in a black neighborhood. Also, wouldn't Walt be there? Also, if Michael was one of the Oceanic 6, there would at least be press or curious members of the public there.

Well personally, to explain my comments, I pay no mind to the neighborhood setting. I also don't think he's a member of the Oceanic Six. That's another post altogether. I'll stick with this theory on 'coffin man' I've sort of bought into.

What leads me to think he's in the man in the coffin is two-fold. First of all, it's a man from New York with some kind of tie to Jack and is considered neither friend nor family by Jack and the other Oceanic Sixees. The obit from the Season 3 finale also said he (coffin man) had a teenage son.

The other part of that equation is Walt. I think he's dead or (see below*). Jacob/The Monster draws people from the characters past to deliver messages etc. Jacks' dad is clearly dead yet has appeared since about Episode 4. We know he's dead, we know Yemi was dead when he talked to Eko, and responded "you talk to me as if I were your brother" (was not his brother) and Charlie is obviously dead and Jacob is trying to lure Hurley back with his friend and guitling him ("THEY need you"). There are other examples that escape me right now. Kate's Horse, Dave-Hurley's friend etc. Walt appeared to Locke in the same manner as the above.


Anyhow, if Walt is dead or *perhaps just in some paranormal state in commune with the island, clearly not wanting to leave.
This would/could leave Michael distraught enough to off himself.
Or any of a hundred other reasons, I'm just drawing together the most basic reasoning.

Walt was said to be special, so he doesn't have to be dead at all, might be kinda brutal to kill off a kid with all these heathens almost unscathed running around the island.

Lastly, it is a bit too obvious but one thing that the producers said is that we would find out pretty soon who was in the coffin. I have no idea when or anything but maybe this Michael arc for Season 4 is a relatively short one and the payoff could be that while Michaels storyline seems kind of obvious, that the real storyline being delivered is Walt's. That perhaps through Michael we find out what happened to Walt and the next time we see Walt, we'll understand why he is where he is without having a possibly non-sensical Walt flashback.

 

[U2DMfan]

So I'm confused about Jin. The date on his tombstone was the date of the plane crash. I guess I'm supposed to be confused.

Well here's my take, maybe it has gaping holes in it, I haven't read Lostpedia or anything yet.

Here is the Oceanic 6 lie:
He (and one other) survived the plane crash, was dragged to the safety (by Kate) and died.

Thus dying on the date of the plane crash.

Here's maybe the reality:

He's dead because it would be awful silly for Sun to go to his fake grave with the baby and pretend with Hurley (who would be in on the lie) and get all tearful about an outright lie among two people in on the same lie. Hurley said "let's go see him".

So they think he's dead, whether he is or not.

Wouldn't a mother who's baby's father is missing or presumed dead hold out every last bit of hope that he was alive and refuse to go to an empty grave?

 

[VintagePunk]

You do not count Aaron. He was not a passenger on the plane that crashed, wouldn't be on the manifest, and wouldn't be known as one of the rescued missing to the public.

That's being hotly debated on many of the various Lost forums at the moment. I tend to agree that it doesn't make sense for Aaron to be one of them, but one of the arguments for it being him that people are putting forward is that on the episode where it was revealed he is with future-Kate, the previews for that episode stated that another member of the Oceanic 6 would be revealed.

But wait, it just occurred to me, wouldn't that have been Kate that was revealed that night? Or do we count her reveal as being the flash-forward episode at the end of season 3?

It's so hard to keep track. Anyway, If her reveal was the season 3 episode, then Aaron was the only new person revealed in Eggtown. And, as we all know, the preview guy promised that the final member would be revealed tonight, and that was Sun. So who else would it be, if not Aaron?

I don't know what to make of the date on Jin's marker, either.

 

[U2DMfan]

, the previews for that episode stated that another member of the Oceanic 6 would be revealed.

But wait, it just occurred to me, wouldn't that have been Kate that was revealed that night? Or do we count her reveal as being the flash-forward episode at the end of season 3?

Kate was said to have been actually been revealed in Season 3 finale. I mean, obviously everyone knew she was off the island but 'known' to the public off the island, was I believe confirmed by the producers sometime eariler this season.

The Aaron/Oceanic 6 confusion makes a little more sense now.
They needed the viewer to think we were watching #5 and #6 of the Oceanic Six, the whole time.

Then, plot-twist---looks like Aaron, I guess?
I have the same reaction as you, who else?

I never thought it was him, I thought it was Sun and Jin, so I was both non-surprised by the 'reveal' and then later very surprised by the 'reveal'. Nice twist, methinks.

 

[phanan]

That's being hotly debated on many of the various Lost forums at the moment. I tend to agree that it doesn't make sense for Aaron to be one of them, but one of the arguments for it being him that people are putting forward is that on the episode where it was revealed he is with future-Kate, the previews for that episode stated that another member of the Oceanic 6 would be revealed.

But wait, it just occurred to me, wouldn't that have been Kate that was revealed that night? Or do we count her reveal as being the flash-forward episode at the end of season 3?

It's so hard to keep track. Anyway, If her reveal was the season 3 episode, then Aaron was the only new person revealed in Eggtown. And, as we all know, the preview guy promised that the final member would be revealed tonight, and that was Sun. So who else would it be, if not Aaron?

I don't know what to make of the date on Jin's marker, either.

At first I thought Aaron was one, but now I don't, for obvious reasons. And the preview for the Kate episode is not specific - it's very ambiguous and done that way on purpose. I think it's misleading. Here's the exact quote from the preview:

"For the survivors of Oceanic 815, nothing is certain, except for the Oceanic Six who have been rescued, and the next one who will be revealed."

Nowhere in that sentence does it say the next one would be revealed in that specific episode. We've seen previews before where they are referring to what's upcoming, but not necessarily the next episode.

I think it was done that way on purpose to throw people off. I don't think Aaron is one of them, and we've still got one more to go.

 

[Carmelu2fan]

Jin was flashbacking and Sun was flashforwarding.

I had to explain that 3 times to my boyfriend last night

 

[lazarus]

"For the survivors of Oceanic 815, nothing is certain, except for the Oceanic Six who have been rescued, and the next one who will be revealed."

The way that is phrased, "the Oceanic Six who have been rescued AND the next one who will be revealed" implies that the "next one" is in ADDITION to the Six. That's how I'm reading grammatically.

U2DMFan, I actually like your theory a lot re: Michael. And since he changed his name to Kevin Johnson, "Michael" would be presumed as having died in the plane crash, therefore no publicity around his funeral.

The question is, why is Jack compelled to go to his funeral, while Kate won't have anything to do with it? Does Michael make a sacrifice that for some reason only benefits Jack, or that no one else will acknowledge? Or does he just relate to Michael in that he was so desperate to return to the island, and then must come back for whatever reason.

To me that's the key to it, and it looks like we may be getting it soon. I don't think an audience can ever forgive Michael's cold-blooded murder, so he really does need to die, hopefully in a effort to save others and at least partially redeem himself.

 

[Carmelu2fan]

I am sure Sayid will get to the bottom of what Micheal is doing. Micheal has nowhere to run on the boat. I also doubt if Micheal is the spy Ben is referring too. I think Ben knows Micheal is on the boat and wants Sayid and Desmond to believe it is him.

 

[lazarus]

What makes you think Michael isn't the spy? There isn't anyone else who it could be. Ben told Locke he might want to sit down before he hears who it is, which implies it's someone he knows.

You're making it way too complicated than it already is. Ben already has dealt with Michael in the past, and it's not far-fetched that he's working for him, we just need to find out why.

From Wikipedia's entry for next week's episode, Meet Kevin Johnson:

"Sayid confronts Ben's spy on the freighter..."

I don't think they'll be revealing ANOTHER person on the boat, especially when the Episode has Michael flashbacks/forwards in it.

 

[VintagePunk]

At first I thought Aaron was one, but now I don't, for obvious reasons. And the preview for the Kate episode is not specific - it's very ambiguous and done that way on purpose. I think it's misleading. Here's the exact quote from the preview:

"For the survivors of Oceanic 815, nothing is certain, except for the Oceanic Six who have been rescued, and the next one who will be revealed."

Nowhere in that sentence does it say the next one would be revealed in that specific episode. We've seen previews before where they are referring to what's upcoming, but not necessarily the next episode.

I think it was done that way on purpose to throw people off. I don't think Aaron is one of them, and we've still got one more to go.

You're right, it is very ambiguous. I wouldn't even guess as to what they intended by phrasing it that way.

But didn't the one for last night say that the final member of the six would be revealed? That's what I remember, although admittedly, I have a hard enough time keeping up with the show, nevermind what preview guy says.

If Aaron is one of them, I'll be disappointed. I would hope the reveal would be a little more interesting than an infant with an oversized head.

 

[joyfulgirl]

What makes you think Michael isn't the spy? There isn't anyone else who it could be. Ben told Locke he might want to sit down before he hears who it is, which implies it's someone he knows.

You're making it way too complicated than it already is. Ben already has dealt with Michael in the past, and it's not far-fetched that he's working for him, we just need to find out why.

From Wikipedia's entry for next week's episode, Meet Kevin Johnson:

"Sayid confronts Ben's spy on the freighter..."

I don't think they'll be revealing ANOTHER person on the boat, especially when the Episode has Michael flashbacks/forwards in it.

But...but...Sayid is working for Ben in the fast forward.

 

[Thora]

Last night was excellent! I love Jin and Sun.

But didn't the one for last night say that the final member of the six would be revealed? That's what I remember, although admittedly, I have a hard enough time keeping up with the show, nevermind what preview guy says.

That's what I remember hearing. I assumed that Sun & Jin were the final two for most of the episode, until it became clear that Jin was having flashbacks, not flashforwards.

I have no clue if the final member of the Oceanic Six is indeed Jin, and he dies after getting off the island, or if it's someone else, and Jin is really dead, or if he hasn't left the island.

So many questions! But that's what I love about this show!

 

[lazarus]

Right. And I don't think it's far fetched that whatever has convinced Michael to work with Ben again will convince Sayid as well...

 

[Carmelu2fan]

You may be right, I am always trying to stay one step ahead of Ben. I think this is the way Sayid ends up on Ben's "side".

 

[VintagePunk]

I have no clue if the final member of the Oceanic Six is indeed Jin, and he dies after getting off the island

Of course it's all speculation, but I tend to think that, assuming he really is dead and it's not some ruse and he's still on the island, the date on his marker implies that he didn't make it off the island, or if he did he was killed during the rescue and he didn't make it back to civilization.

 

[Carmelu2fan]

I agree. I've always thought for some reason most of the islanders choose to remain on the island by there own free will. I just don't want to believe all of them die.

 

[phanan]

You're right, it is very ambiguous. I wouldn't even guess as to what they intended by phrasing it that way.

But didn't the one for last night say that the final member of the six would be revealed? That's what I remember, although admittedly, I have a hard enough time keeping up with the show, nevermind what preview guy says.

If Aaron is one of them, I'll be disappointed. I would hope the reveal would be a little more interesting than an infant with an oversized head.

I just watched the preview again, and it says the last of the Oceanic Six will be revealed. Notice how it is not specific as to how many that includes.

Seems to me, based on that, that the final two might be Sun and Michael, and then Michael ends up in the coffin. Perhaps we don't see Walt because he chooses (or maybe doesn't choose) to stay behind.

It's fun trying to sort it out, anyway...

 

[beegee]

Not really relevant to the plot but I thought it was strange that Sun would have the same headboard and furniture in her apartment when she's been confirmed dead for three months.

Another great episode from season four

 

[Daddysgonnapay]

I just watched the preview again, and it says the last of the Oceanic Six will be revealed. Notice how it is not specific as to how many that includes.

Seems to me, based on that, that the final two might be Sun and Michael, and then Michael ends up in the coffin. Perhaps we don't see Walt because he chooses (or maybe doesn't choose) to stay behind.

It's fun trying to sort it out, anyway...

I agree....and this is why i am always excited for the next episode every week!

 

[Dreadsox]

My wife has a theory that everyone from here on out that has flashbacks, does not make it off the island. For example, last week with Juliett.
Flashbacks=death.

 

[Dreadsox]

So I'm confused about Jin. The date on his tombstone was the date of the plane crash. I guess I'm supposed to be confused.

The oceanic 6 are hiding something.

Maybe Jin is alive on the island.

 

[joyfulgirl]

My wife has a theory that everyone from here on out that has flashbacks, does not make it off the island. For example, last week with Juliett.
Flashbacks=death.

ooooh... that's a good one. Good read on symbolism. Don't know if it's true but it would be cool if they used flashbacks that way.

 

[BVS]

The oceanic 6 are hiding something.

Maybe Jin is alive on the island.

Why would they go visit his grave though if they really knew he was alive?

I think Jin is dead, but they have to use that date to keep up the story. They are hiding something, but I don't think it's Jin's life.

 

[BVS]

My wife has a theory that everyone from here on out that has flashbacks, does not make it off the island. For example, last week with Juliett.
Flashbacks=death.

Interesting. If this is true though, this means quite a few won't be getting stories for awhile. For I think there will still be quite a few alive and left on the island.

 

[EdgeIsTooSexy]

i didnt understand the whole jin thing him rushing in with the panda and not going into see sun, and then hes dead.
maybe i was just really tired or stupid....

 

[Hewson]

Seems to me, based on that, that the final two might be Sun and Michael, and then Michael ends up in the coffin.

But if Michael were a member of the Oceanic 6, I would think his death would be big news, not a blurb in the obits with no mention f "Oceanic 6" and nobody at his wake.