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Old 06-28-2004, 03:24 AM   #31
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I've gotta say there were very few things in F-9/11 that were new to me. All the film did for me was make me pissier.
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Old 06-28-2004, 03:40 AM   #32
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I would never patronize a far left liar like Moore. He has no idea what he is talking about.

I know many of you will say "You havent seen it, so how can you criticize it?" crap. Well, I dont need to see it to know that what he says are angry lies coming from nowhere in a desperate attempt to get Bush out of town.

Dont get me wrong, I guess he has the right to make the film. But I think he should be called an entertainer, not a documentarian. The whole idea of documentarians are to tell the truth, something which Moore is just not doing.
This is the kind of "review" I just don't understand. You haven't seen the film, and yet you categorically reject everything in it as "angry lies." It may interest you to know that MANY of the points made in this film are verifiable facts. Facts. Yes that's right, facts. Verified by several different and unaffiliated sources at that. Readily available to read in different newspapers and reports. Not conjured up by Moore and his cronies, but actual events/circumstances/relationships/etc that actually happened and are verifiable (tangent: if they were lies, then how come we haven't heard the Bush administration saying they don't have any ties with the Bin Laden family and Haliburton and other companies weren't trying to woo the Taliban into letting them build oil pipelines in Afghanistan. You would think they'd be jumping all over these "lies").

Oh wait, what's that, you don't like what they say? Oh well then, of course they must all be lies.

Look, here's my point. If you want to say that Moore isn't really a documentarian because he's only spouting lies, then you're not really making much of an argument and quite frankly, unless you can back up those claims, then you yourself are spouting lies. If, however, you want to say that Moore isn't really a documentarian because he only puts forth select truths and hides others which may not support his view (even if they might be pretty important), then my friend, you have a case.

More or less, Moore isn't interested in telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help him God. He's interested in the part of the truth that works for his motives. That doesn't make him a liar, it makes him a man with an agenda, and to that point Moore has been pretty outspoken.
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Old 06-28-2004, 03:44 AM   #33
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It's out here in Australia in mid-July I think. I'll see it, but not rush.
I hate Bush with every fibre of my heart and soul, but I'm under no illusions about what Michael Moore is either. Like someone said above, he's more entertainer then documentarian. A well produced documentary just presents things as they are, and leaves you to decide. Moore's films are designed to provoke emotion - the emotion he wants.

Still, I'm in two minds about whether this film is a good thing or a bad thing. I think a decent % of Americans are still pretty blind to Bush, thanks to the mainstream US media, which like Moore's documentaries are more about entertainment than facts. Michael Moore is to documentaries as Fox is to news. I'm sure this film will swing a lot of votes against Bush, but it feels kinda shallow that it's done that way.

The best result I'd hope for is that people see it, think about it, go check out more sources and make an informed decision. I'm betting if people do that, the majority will still swing against Bush.
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Old 06-28-2004, 03:51 AM   #34
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Great post, Earnie.
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Old 06-28-2004, 11:42 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by Diemen


This is the kind of "review" I just don't understand. You haven't seen the film, and yet you categorically reject everything in it as "angry lies." It may interest you to know that MANY of the points made in this film are verifiable facts. Facts. Yes that's right, facts. Verified by several different and unaffiliated sources at that. Readily available to read in different newspapers and reports. Not conjured up by Moore and his cronies, but actual events/circumstances/relationships/etc that actually happened and are verifiable (tangent: if they were lies, then how come we haven't heard the Bush administration saying they don't have any ties with the Bin Laden family and Haliburton and other companies weren't trying to woo the Taliban into letting them build oil pipelines in Afghanistan. You would think they'd be jumping all over these "lies").

Oh wait, what's that, you don't like what they say? Oh well then, of course they must all be lies.

Look, here's my point. If you want to say that Moore isn't really a documentarian because he's only spouting lies, then you're not really making much of an argument and quite frankly, unless you can back up those claims, then you yourself are spouting lies. If, however, you want to say that Moore isn't really a documentarian because he only puts forth select truths and hides others which may not support his view (even if they might be pretty important), then my friend, you have a case.

More or less, Moore isn't interested in telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help him God. He's interested in the part of the truth that works for his motives. That doesn't make him a liar, it makes him a man with an agenda, and to that point Moore has been pretty outspoken.
Excellent post. The angry lies review is getting old. You can't claim lies by spouting off other lies.
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Old 06-28-2004, 11:48 AM   #36
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Are you suggesting that, even though Moore may only convey partial truths, it is falsehood free?
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Old 06-28-2004, 12:39 PM   #37
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Let's say for an instance, this movie is a complete fabrication, and that all of the material represents a web of lies spun by a doctor of leftist media. In terms of exposing the truth, who is responsible? An independent filmmaker (which is an immediate disclaimer) or the administration being scrutinized? I know it's not traditionally an American precept to negotiate with filmmakers (), but in this case a statement on behalf of team Bush clarifying certain issues addressed in the movie would give some peace of mind to the average voter.

Should a man with clear individual intentions be allowed to carelessly misinform the American public? I don't think so. Moore may be conceived of guilt in that context as well... ()

It seems a lot of the contention towards this movie (notice I haven't used the term documentary) stems from a belief that it affords a disproportionate view of the political climate in the United States. Well fine then. In the past, voters in America have been relied upon for their individual interpretation and filtering of information in order to arrive at a decision. Through that intrinisic ability to decipher tangible truth in a situation of media barrage of personal attacks and special interest group lobbying, one is expected as a citizen to discover the most worthy candidate to represent their values (whatever they may be). What would be the danger in stoically accepting this concept? It is a testament to free will and democracy. With that in mind, what is the conflict with one viewing Fahrenheit 9/11, as well as the infinite number of other information outlets? Is there something inherently UnAmerican about Michael Moore? Or has faith in the individual waned to such a degree, that one is no longer able to arrive at a decision without outside interference? I'm not sure. In other words, is it more a case of Moore, or a general loss of respect for the interpretive capacity of the average American voter?

In any regard, disrespect may be bred, intentionally or not. I urge everyone to go see the movie... not because it will distort or reveal truth. Simply because you can exercise the right to see it. If one's convictions are strong, a two and a half hour movie should do none to damage it. Right?



This in no way was meant to offend anyone. I respect all the opinions that have been expressed thus far... hopefully all can accept mine, agreeance aside.
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Old 06-28-2004, 01:38 PM   #38
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A few comments on the movie:

Before seeing it last night, I read EVERY article and review I could get my hands on (which is "work and research" I have done before choosing any candidate I have ever voted for). I wanted to go into the movie being as objective as possible to what Moore was presenting (something I had not done before seeing "roger and Me" and "Bowling for Columbine").

I read about how the FBI/CIA actually "screened/questioned" the Bin Laden family members after 9/11 and flew AFTER regular scheduled flights began. The articles also stated that while the Taliban Leaders that visited Texas and Unocal when Bush was governor, they also visited with Clinton in the White House. No mention was made of the White House Visit in the movie.

Moore actually made all of the Senate (Republican AND DEMOCRATS) look like idiots for not standing up with the House of Representatives after the voting problems in 2000 in Florida, and also showed how the Democrats helped push through (NOT READ) the Patriot Act. It does not only bash Bush (although, the movie really is about Bush and his admin.).

As for Flint...

Quote:
Originally posted by CampbellMSU
and michael, dear, shut the hell up about flint. flint's a dump. no one in michigan cares about flint anymore.
Ah, Irony. HERE is the problem...people should care about Flint. People should care about all of the areas in this country that have turned into supposed vast wastelands of economic paralysis - you know, rather than spending billions on oil interests in the Middle East.

Final word: SEVENTEEN MINUTES OF PREVIEWS

I will see everyone of those movies though
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Old 06-28-2004, 03:21 PM   #39
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Are you suggesting that, even though Moore may only convey partial truths, it is falsehood free?
I don't know I haven't seen it or researched it yet. But I've yet to find one review that actually points out lies. I've seen a few pieces of information that were left out, but have yet to see lies. Not to say they aren't there. But I know there are enough facts that have turned the vote of a few fence sitters and one staunch Bush supporter. A close friend of mine who has researched the film quite a bit, and though found info. left out that he feels should have been put in, found enough facts where he will not vote for Bush. I was shocked.
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Old 06-28-2004, 09:47 PM   #40
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michael moore made the democratic senators look like absolute useless idiots.

also, there was a mention of the taliban minister visitng the whitehouse. it was that scene where he told the woman that she would be difficult to handle.

i think my number one target of frustration is now saudi arabia. what a bunch of assholes. then again, we just keep shellin over the big bucks...
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Old 06-28-2004, 09:51 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by kariatari
I've gotta say there were very few things in F-9/11 that were new to me. All the film did for me was make me pissier.
ditto.

I thought the film was great, it discussed a lot of things that the mainstream media has ignored. My sister and mother saw it with me and liked it too, and my mother is by no means left wing. Up until fairly recently she considered herself a moderate republican.
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Old 06-29-2004, 01:26 AM   #42
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I tried to go see it today. Showed up at the theaters at 7:30 hoping to see the 7:45 showing, and both the 7:45 and 9:45 were already sold out. Surprising for a Monday evening.
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Old 06-29-2004, 09:01 AM   #43
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I went on Monday afternoon....almost full theater. Amazing movie. I've never been to a movie where the entire audience stood up and applauded at the end. Worth seeing....
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Old 06-29-2004, 12:12 PM   #44
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Quote:
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Are you suggesting that, even though Moore may only convey partial truths, it is falsehood free?
Don`t make this a FYM topic. I like the different revieuws about the movie as people see it.
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Old 06-29-2004, 02:47 PM   #45
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How can anyone want to watch a movie that is so disgustingly blatant in its purpose of manipulating facts in order to endorse a screwy political agenda!
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