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View Poll Results: Will Mark McGwire go to Cooperstown?
Yes and he deserves to. 10 43.48%
Yes, but he doesn't deserve it because of the steroid issue. 7 30.43%
No but he deserves to. 0 0%
No and rightfully no. 6 26.09%
Voters: 23. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old 01-12-2006, 06:58 PM   #31
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Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase
it's not fair because they don't know. do i think he did? yea... do i know? no.

Well, I think it's worse for an undeserving player to be in the HOF (and yes, there probably are some) than for a deserving player to be left out. But that's just my opinion. I'm not going to protest outside Cooperstown if McGwire gets in.
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Old 01-12-2006, 08:03 PM   #32
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I'm not going to protest outside Cooperstown if McGwire gets in.
Neither will I.

But if one day I have a son, and he enjoys baseball, I'll be sure to tell him Mark McGwire was a no good cheat.
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Old 01-12-2006, 08:37 PM   #33
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Neither will I.

But if one day I have a son, and he enjoys baseball, I'll be sure to tell him Mark McGwire was a no good cheat.
well you better tell your son most players are no good cheats

Quote:
Here's what Caminiti told SI about greenies: "I would say there are only a couple of guys on a team that don't take greenies before a game. One or two guys. That's called going out there naked. And you hear it all the time from teammates, 'You're not going to play naked, are you?' And even the guys who are against greenies may be taking diet pills or popping 25 caffeine pills and they're up there [at bat] with their hands shaking. So how good is that? This game is so whacked out that guys will take anything to get an edge. You got a pill that will make me feel better? Let me have it."

Former outfielder Chad Curtis agreed with Caminiti: "You might have one team where eight guys play naked and another team where nobody does, but that sounds about right. Steroids are popular, but quite a lot more guys take [amphetamines] than steroids. I'm talking about illegal stuff. Speed ... ritalin, which is legal only with a doctor's prescription ... sometimes guys don't even know what they're taking. One guy will take some pills out of his locker and tell somebody else, 'Here, take one of these. You'll feel better.' And the other guy will take it and not even know what it is."

Curtis added that amphetamine use is so prevalent that non-users are sometimes ostracized as slackers.

"If the starting pitcher knows you're going out there naked, he's upset that you're not giving him more than what you can," Curtis said. "The big-time pitcher wants to make sure you're beaning up before the game tonight."
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200....amphetamines/
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Old 01-12-2006, 08:39 PM   #34
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baseball players cheat? oh my god!
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Old 01-12-2006, 08:47 PM   #35
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Yeah. I've read up on them in the past few days.

I'm not convinced they actually enhance performance. Bill Lee said they were more a hang-over helper.

I'll have to do more reading.

I don't see how being "up" equates with increased muscle mass, but whatever makes you feel better about Big Mac being fake.

I'll probably just buy my kid a guitar and tell him all jocks are cheater fakes.
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Old 01-12-2006, 09:01 PM   #36
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The quote: "I think the difference is amphetamines aren't necessarily performance-enhancing. They might give you a lift, but they're not going to make you go from hitting the ball 420 feet to hitting it 460 feet. That's the big discrepancy between [amphetamines and steroids]." -- New York Yankees pitcher Mike Stanton to the Times.

What you should know: Uh, OK, so if they are not "necessarily" performance-enhancing, why are players taking them? They taste good?

Here's Caminiti again about reporting to work lethargic after a night of drinking: "You take some pills, go out and run in the outfield and you get the blood flowing. All of a sudden you feel much better."
Quote:
While steroids have garnered the bulk of attention in recent months, amphetamines have been around longer. Their use is more prevalent than performance-enhancing drugs, and they are considered more menacing, according to health experts.

"Amphetamines have far less impact on performance on the field, but they are way, way more dangerous," said Dr. Charles Yesalis, a professor of health and human development at Penn State University who is writing a book on stimulants. "They can stone-cold kill you on the spot."
i just dont see how anybody can condone amphetamine use but condemn steroid use. cheating is cheating.
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Old 01-12-2006, 09:48 PM   #37
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Maybe because amphetamines could be bought OTC?

I'm not sayin', i'm just sayin.
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Old 01-12-2006, 11:35 PM   #38
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Originally posted by WildHoneyAlways
Maybe because amphetamines could be bought OTC?

I'm not sayin', i'm just sayin.
maybe ya missed this

Quote:
I'm talking about illegal stuff. Speed ... ritalin, which is legal only with a doctor's prescription ... sometimes guys don't even know what they're taking. One guy will take some pills out of his locker and tell somebody else, 'Here, take one of these. You'll feel better.' And the other guy will take it and not even know what it is."
and people still blasted Mac for using andro, which can also be bought OTC
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Old 01-12-2006, 11:42 PM   #39
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For all the writers who don't vote for McGwire on the first ballot in order to "send a message" they better do the same when players like Bonds make it on the ballot. At least there is actual proof that Bond's used steroids.

What message is really being sent anyway, "well even though we can't prove anything, players better not do anything to make us suspicious or else we won't vote for you the first year, even though we already voted for other players who took illegal drugs to enhance their performance." sweet message theyre sending.

i still dont see why taking steroids is considered a mortal sin while taking speed before a game is accepted.

and why does a message need to be sent anyway? to dissuade current players from taking steroids? well there is an actual steroids policy to do that now, so i dont know what sending a message would do.
All I'm saying is that, there's a significant achievement to be made when one not only makes it to the HOF, but as a first ballot Hall Of Famer as well. And perhaps some sportswriters will take into consideration his testimony before Congress last year and think, I can't prove he cheated, but I think he did, and although he will get into the HOF eventually, the least I could do is not vote for him the first time, so that he at least won't have that distinction, and when people wonder why he wasn't on the first ballot in the future, they'll look back on those lingering questions concerning his career, and in some small way, it will give people pause when considering McGwire's legacy.
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Old 01-12-2006, 11:49 PM   #40
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Originally posted by Chizip


maybe ya missed this



and people still blasted Mac for using andro, which can also be bought OTC
Yeah, I know. But up until a few years ago you could walk into any gas station and pick up something to "get up" for a game. Take a handful of sudafed, get hyped up. Sure, you can take ritalin but I'd rather have a mini thin anyday. Yeah, I don't know why people are more forgiving of amphetamine use. I don't know what to make of Mac's andro use.

For the record, I hated the homerun race of 1998.
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Old 01-13-2006, 09:34 AM   #41
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athletes at all levels will always find something to give them a competitive advantage... get rid of all the steroids and all the speed in the world, and they'll simply find something else.

but alas, the situational morality that's often involved in the sporting world turns a blind eye to the every day cheating that goes on, but gets all in a tiff over steroids.
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