Marion Jones...

[Lally1011]

In all honesty, I'm not the kinda person to post serious subjects up but....the Olympics are something that I just simply place a lot of value in. I've seen some pretty insightful comments by folks around here so I thought this would be another subject that may get those insightful minds talking.

Marion 'fessed up today.

I presume that there was evidence against her and this is why she chose to come clean. Or her guilty conscious caught up with her and, hopefully, she's breathing a little easier tonight.

I suppose that, when you compete at that level, regardless of the sport, you can't help but assume that your competitor(s) is/are doing it too and that, if you don't engage in some level of boosting, the odds of winning are not in your favor.

If this is the case, then she owes it to the sport and her fans (and ultimately, herself) to help clean it up. I give her props for doing what she did today, however, only her actions tomorrow will truly define how she feels about what she did.

OK...i'm all ears...

 

[beli]

Marion Jones 'fessed up to what? Using drugs?

And to what question are you all ears?

Sorry mate, I need more info.

 

[beli]

US track star Marion Jones pleaded guilty on Friday to lying to federal investigators and taking the steroid tetrahydrogestrinone (THG)

Sorry if my previous post seemed in anyway harsh.

So whats the question?

 

[indra]

I suppose I'm cynical but I have to wonder if anyone really thinks most elite level athletes aren't using some type of performance enhancing drugs.

 

[coolian2]

Oh my god no way

 

[dazzlingamy]

I hope she gives back her gold medals.

I also don't understand why athletes take drugs - where's your pride in winning or acheiving your goals when you've taken drugs to get there. Anyone could pump a load of steroids, grow some muscles and run like hell - how can you be proud or happy when its not YOU who's put in the effort - its your drug company.

 

[trevster2k]

Oh, she ain't giving them back.............they are taking them back. Unfortunately, the second place winner back in 2000 was suspended for two years in Athens for failing to attend a drug test. Remember the two Greek athletes who faked a car accident as a reason for not showing up.

I disagree that taking steroids and performance enhancing drugs can make anyone a world class athlete. YOU still have to do the work, if anything you do more work since the drugs allow your body to grow quicker, heal faster, and enable an athlete to constantly train. Average people need longer rest periods and time to achieve any similar gains. If you take steroids and sit on your ass, you won't be a world class athlete. There is still a level of skill involved too. Hand eye coordination, motor skills, etc. are all part of what makes a great athlete. The drugs provide power mostly. Barry Bonds still has to make contact with those 95 mile per hour fastballs or 79 mile per hour breaking balls. Marion Jones still had to be able to use proper technique to run quickly and efficiently.

All that being said, yup, she is a cheater but so are lots, I mean lots of other athletes in sports. Most will never be caught. Flo-Jo was definitely on the juice back in the 80's but denied it the whole time. I believe Lance was cheating too since how does a clean athlete dominate a race in which almost the entire field is using enhancing drugs. Impossible.

I say let them use whatever they want and if it kills them, I don't care. Some people argue but "what about the children" following those athletes as role models. Well, those kids who think taking performance enhancing drugs are the few, not the many. Natural selection works for a reason, smart people do smart things, the dumb don't. The technology used in masking drugs along with the politics, bribes and other crap going on makes it a tough challenge to ensure a drug free competition. Either test everyone all the time or don't. They are catching some people but many fall through the net.

 

[BonoIsMyMuse]

Somehow I missed the original accusations that she'd used steroids, but I was really disgusted to read about this yesterday.

You know, we wonder why so many students think cheating and plagiarizing are acceptable, but then we see how many athletes are being exposed for using steroids. If their heroes and role models can cheat, why can't they? Lately it seems like we live in a world where kids are taught to believe that it's okay to get ahead any way that you can as long as you don't get caught

 

[Mr. BAW]

She reportedly told the court that "I thought my trainer was giving me flaxseed oil..."

And her reported connection to BALCO....kinda reminds me of.....

 

[speedracer]

You know, we wonder why so many students think cheating and plagiarizing are acceptable, but then we see how many athletes are being exposed for using steroids. If their heroes and role models can cheat, why can't they? Lately it seems like we live in a world where kids are taught to believe that it's okay to get ahead any way that you can as long as you don't get caught

Perhaps sports isn't such a good model for the rest of society. Or is it?

I violate speeding laws all the time when I drive, and so do lots of other people. It's clear that many speed limits are not taken seriously by the vast majority of people and are difficult to enforce -- two of the hallmarks of bad law. Law enforcement officials realize this for the most part and typically take a cynical attitude towards speeding laws -- they may pay lip service to the ideal of driving safely, but mostly they regard speeding laws as a method of collecting revenue for the city/state.

The rules banning PED use in various sports (most notably in track events and in cycling) are also not taken seriously by athletes and are difficult for the sport governing bodies to enforce strictly. The difference here is that certain PEDs are illegal under federal law, and the Feds are damn serious about prosecuting people who buy and sell them; it's a lot easier to bust a PED dealer than a PED user.

The ideal solution might very well be some sort of system where PED use is legalized and carefully regulated to protect the health of athletes.

 

[Lally1011]

Interesting replies.

Barry Bonds makes a very good point about not knowingly taking anything. Going back to my comment about competing at that level, there are also a lot of people involved with you, as a competitor/athlete - trainers, doctors, etc. And they all have different agendas when they're working with an athlete. It's like a CEO of a corporation - sometimes he or she is the scapegoat. They aren't directly involved and perhaps had no idea that something unethical was going on until someone else blows the whistle.

How can an athlete really know what they're being given?

To add to this, I also read that the gray area between a permitted drug and a PED is getting thinner and thinner. Do testing officials really know every single type of PED out there? It's possible that an athelete may be given (or take) a PED before it is even classified as one.

If there is any hope with going back to true sports, the Marion Jones' of sports are really going to have to step up to the plate and fight back.

By the way, there was no question regarding this. Just wanted to read what others thought about it.

 

[Mr. BAW]

This will tie up a lot of loose ends and they lead to BALCO...a number of athletes besides Bonds and Marion Jones are named...

 

[randhail]

Interesting replies.

Barry Bonds makes a very good point about not knowingly taking anything. Going back to my comment about competing at that level, there are also a lot of people involved with you, as a competitor/athlete - trainers, doctors, etc. And they all have different agendas when they're working with an athlete. It's like a CEO of a corporation - sometimes he or she is the scapegoat. They aren't directly involved and perhaps had no idea that something unethical was going on until someone else blows the whistle.

How can an athlete really know what they're being given?

I think it's a load of crap to believe that an athlete would take something without fully knowiing what it was. Blame may go out to other people, but the athletes are the ones making the ultimate decision to take the stuff.

 

[financeguy]

She's a dirty fucking drugs cheat, I'm glad she's been found out.

I always knew some of the medals in that Olympics were seriously dodgy.

 

[Butterscotch]

All that being said, yup, she is a cheater but so are lots, I mean lots of other athletes in sports. Most will never be caught. Flo-Jo was definitely on the juice back in the 80's but denied it the whole time. I believe Lance was cheating too since how does a clean athlete dominate a race in which almost the entire field is using enhancing drugs. Impossible.

I agree. What irks me is, if she's to be stripped of her metals, as other recent athletes have been for this reason, is it really right to allow those Soviet bloc athletes from the Cold War era who were obviously enhanced to keep theirs? The Russian gymnasts on Peter Pan drugs, the Bulgarian weightlifters on steroids, the East German women, from track and field to swimming who were so full of chemicals they were more like men competing against women, will they be treated the same way? If not, it's not fair to take it out on the later athletes.

Unfortunately, the second place winner back in 2000 was suspended for two years in Athens for failing to attend a drug test. Remember the two Greek athletes who faked a car accident as a reason for not showing up.

I was wondering about this. How does it work, if she's stripped, does that mean the silver medalist gets her gold, bronze moves up to silver, and fourth place the bronze? Is that how it works? Is anyone going to also check those people out to make sure they didn't do the same thing?

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

You know, we wonder why so many students think cheating and plagiarizing are acceptable,

because their parents did a bad job or instilling a sense of right and wrong?

steroids don't make athletes better. steroids make it easier for you to work out, mostly by increasing recovery time, thus allowing a person to workout harder, longer and more often.

i'm not saying their use is either right or wrong. but the perception by most that all you have to do is take a pill or shoot a needle and it's going to make you a great athlete is silly. these people were great before they took steroids. the steroids just took it to another level, a level that they probably could have gotten to on their own, but got their quicker and easier with the help of the juice.

they're "performance enhancers," not performance creators.

 

[trevster2k]

The Russian gymnasts on Peter Pan drugs, the Bulgarian weightlifters on steroids, the East German women, from track and field to swimming who were so full of chemicals they were more like men competing against women, will they be treated the same way? If not, it's not fair to take it out on the later athletes.



I was wondering about this. How does it work, if she's stripped, does that mean the silver medalist gets her gold, bronze moves up to silver, and fourth place the bronze? Is that how it works? Is anyone going to also check those people out to make sure they didn't do the same thing?

I think they should take 3 samples and keep one on ice for a long time and test it again 10 years later after the technology used to test for drugs has improved. If they tested the samples of athletes from the past, they would probably read off the scale. And I doubt it would only be athletes from the Soviet Bloc who were on the juice. Athletes from all over the world including the U.S and Canada got away with not being caught. Our Dubin Inquiry revealed that even some of our supposed clean athletes had used illegal substances. That is the reason why the last Olympics had the highest number of postitive tests ever, they got better at detecting the stuff. Of course, companies like Balco ( it isn't the only one dabbling in hiding drugs) are constantly attempting to improve their masking techniques too.

Regarding the awarding of a medal to the second, third place people. Our cross country queen, Beckie Scott, received a gold medal for her performance in the Salt Lake City Olympics. She got it 2 and a half years later after the first and second place athletes tested positive. She finished third and received the silver first, then they realized the new winner was also cheating so she got the gold for being the only clean one of the three. Sometimes they get things right and the deserving people get rewarded. Beckie was a vocal advocate of clean athletics even when she was a competitor.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2004/02/28/scott_gold040228.html

And Headache is right on the money about the drugs, enhancement is the key word. I imagine if there were no negative side effects or health risks associated with these chemicals, they would probably be welcomed with open arms like other supplements.

 

[Irvine511]

i'm not saying their use is either right or wrong. but the perception by most that all you have to do is take a pill or shoot a needle and it's going to make you a great athlete is silly. these people were great before they took steroids. the steroids just took it to another level, a level that they probably could have gotten to on their own, but got their quicker and easier with the help of the juice.

this is very sad news, but the above bears repeating. just because you are on drugs does not mean that you are unbeatable.

from 1973 until 1990, the East German women were thoroughly dominant in swimming, and every last one of them was drugged -- by the State, many of the athletes had no real idea, and they were told that the West was doping anyway, so nothing to feel bad about -- and every last East German record in women's swimming has been relegated to the dustbin in history. in fact, the longest standing records in either men's or women's swimming are Janet Evans's distance freestyle records set in 1988/89 that existed until 2006 (400m), 2007 (1500m) and she still holds the world record in the 800 that's been around since 1989. and it was dramatic watching her win in 1988 -- she stood 5'3" and all of 101 lbs against East German women who were both a solid 6ft and more of all muscle, and she thrashed them. hard. three times.

drugs only get you so far. that's what kids need to learn. drugs aren't a replacement for heart, guts, soul, whatever you want to call it. did Marion Jones cheat? yes. should she be shamed? yes. does it mean that she was unbeatable? not by a long shot.

 

[Butterscotch]

from 1973 until 1990, the East German women were thoroughly dominant in swimming, and every last one of them was drugged -- by the State, many of the athletes had no real idea, and they were told that the West was doping anyway, so nothing to feel bad about -- and every last East German record in women's swimming has been relegated to the dustbin in history.

This is what I was saying. Even if their records are broken I don't think it's right they keep their medals if Marion can't.

Those are women? LOL. I thought they were members of White Lion!

 

[No spoken words]

Those are women? LOL. I thought they were members of White Lion!

That cracked me up.

 

[U2girl]

this is very sad news, but the above bears repeating. just because you are on drugs does not mean that you are unbeatable.

from 1973 until 1990, the East German women were thoroughly dominant in swimming, and every last one of them was drugged -- by the State, many of the athletes had no real idea, and they were told that the West was doping anyway, so nothing to feel bad about -- and every last East German record in women's swimming has been relegated to the dustbin in history. in fact, the longest standing records in either men's or women's swimming are Janet Evans's distance freestyle records set in 1988/89 that existed until 2006 (400m), 2007 (1500m) and she still holds the world record in the 800 that's been around since 1989. and it was dramatic watching her win in 1988 -- she stood 5'3" and all of 101 lbs against East German women who were both a solid 6ft and more of all muscle, and she thrashed them. hard. three times.

drugs only get you so far. that's what kids need to learn. drugs aren't a replacement for heart, guts, soul, whatever you want to call it. did Marion Jones cheat? yes. should she be shamed? yes. does it mean that she was unbeatable? not by a long shot.

Remember those amazing results Chinese female athletes had a few years ago in the long runs in athletics ?

Sadly, in the competitive world of top level sports sometimes people will do anything to win.

Crack down on all the sports druggies (and the suppliers, above all), be it athletics, cycling...it's not just about setting an example and the issue of cheating, it's about letting them compete safely, and healthy. Denounce scores and strip the medals for the past decade or two if you have to, and start over.

The only other alternative - stop trying to catch everyone, it's like police vs criminals always one step ahead and just let everyone loose and use whatever they want - is too scary.

 

[dazzlingamy]

I wasn't really up on what steroids do - thanks for clarifying

I just think though, is that it still takes away the pride of winning if you had to take something to make yourself better, that isn't natural etc.

But on the other hand, i also think athletes shouldn't be held up in such high regard - wow you can run 100 metres in under 10 seconds... or
wow you found a way to treat agressive cancers so people can live 10 to 15 more years etc

bring on the sexy researcher/scientist idolisation!