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Old 10-07-2007, 01:00 PM   #16
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Originally posted by BonoIsMyMuse
You know, we wonder why so many students think cheating and plagiarizing are acceptable,
because their parents did a bad job or instilling a sense of right and wrong?

steroids don't make athletes better. steroids make it easier for you to work out, mostly by increasing recovery time, thus allowing a person to workout harder, longer and more often.

i'm not saying their use is either right or wrong. but the perception by most that all you have to do is take a pill or shoot a needle and it's going to make you a great athlete is silly. these people were great before they took steroids. the steroids just took it to another level, a level that they probably could have gotten to on their own, but got their quicker and easier with the help of the juice.

they're "performance enhancers," not performance creators.
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Old 10-07-2007, 07:53 PM   #17
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The Russian gymnasts on Peter Pan drugs, the Bulgarian weightlifters on steroids, the East German women, from track and field to swimming who were so full of chemicals they were more like men competing against women, will they be treated the same way? If not, it's not fair to take it out on the later athletes.



I was wondering about this. How does it work, if she's stripped, does that mean the silver medalist gets her gold, bronze moves up to silver, and fourth place the bronze? Is that how it works? Is anyone going to also check those people out to make sure they didn't do the same thing?
I think they should take 3 samples and keep one on ice for a long time and test it again 10 years later after the technology used to test for drugs has improved. If they tested the samples of athletes from the past, they would probably read off the scale. And I doubt it would only be athletes from the Soviet Bloc who were on the juice. Athletes from all over the world including the U.S and Canada got away with not being caught. Our Dubin Inquiry revealed that even some of our supposed clean athletes had used illegal substances. That is the reason why the last Olympics had the highest number of postitive tests ever, they got better at detecting the stuff. Of course, companies like Balco ( it isn't the only one dabbling in hiding drugs) are constantly attempting to improve their masking techniques too.

Regarding the awarding of a medal to the second, third place people. Our cross country queen, Beckie Scott, received a gold medal for her performance in the Salt Lake City Olympics. She got it 2 and a half years later after the first and second place athletes tested positive. She finished third and received the silver first, then they realized the new winner was also cheating so she got the gold for being the only clean one of the three. Sometimes they get things right and the deserving people get rewarded. Beckie was a vocal advocate of clean athletics even when she was a competitor.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2004/...old040228.html

And Headache is right on the money about the drugs, enhancement is the key word. I imagine if there were no negative side effects or health risks associated with these chemicals, they would probably be welcomed with open arms like other supplements.
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Old 10-07-2007, 08:27 PM   #18
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Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase

i'm not saying their use is either right or wrong. but the perception by most that all you have to do is take a pill or shoot a needle and it's going to make you a great athlete is silly. these people were great before they took steroids. the steroids just took it to another level, a level that they probably could have gotten to on their own, but got their quicker and easier with the help of the juice.


this is very sad news, but the above bears repeating. just because you are on drugs does not mean that you are unbeatable.

from 1973 until 1990, the East German women were thoroughly dominant in swimming, and every last one of them was drugged -- by the State, many of the athletes had no real idea, and they were told that the West was doping anyway, so nothing to feel bad about -- and every last East German record in women's swimming has been relegated to the dustbin in history. in fact, the longest standing records in either men's or women's swimming are Janet Evans's distance freestyle records set in 1988/89 that existed until 2006 (400m), 2007 (1500m) and she still holds the world record in the 800 that's been around since 1989. and it was dramatic watching her win in 1988 -- she stood 5'3" and all of 101 lbs against East German women who were both a solid 6ft and more of all muscle, and she thrashed them. hard. three times.




drugs only get you so far. that's what kids need to learn. drugs aren't a replacement for heart, guts, soul, whatever you want to call it. did Marion Jones cheat? yes. should she be shamed? yes. does it mean that she was unbeatable? not by a long shot.
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Old 10-07-2007, 11:33 PM   #19
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Originally posted by Irvine511
from 1973 until 1990, the East German women were thoroughly dominant in swimming, and every last one of them was drugged -- by the State, many of the athletes had no real idea, and they were told that the West was doping anyway, so nothing to feel bad about -- and every last East German record in women's swimming has been relegated to the dustbin in history.
This is what I was saying. Even if their records are broken I don't think it's right they keep their medals if Marion can't.

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Those are women? LOL. I thought they were members of White Lion!
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Old 10-07-2007, 11:40 PM   #20
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Those are women? LOL. I thought they were members of White Lion!
That cracked me up.
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Old 10-08-2007, 07:33 AM   #21
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Originally posted by Irvine511




this is very sad news, but the above bears repeating. just because you are on drugs does not mean that you are unbeatable.

from 1973 until 1990, the East German women were thoroughly dominant in swimming, and every last one of them was drugged -- by the State, many of the athletes had no real idea, and they were told that the West was doping anyway, so nothing to feel bad about -- and every last East German record in women's swimming has been relegated to the dustbin in history. in fact, the longest standing records in either men's or women's swimming are Janet Evans's distance freestyle records set in 1988/89 that existed until 2006 (400m), 2007 (1500m) and she still holds the world record in the 800 that's been around since 1989. and it was dramatic watching her win in 1988 -- she stood 5'3" and all of 101 lbs against East German women who were both a solid 6ft and more of all muscle, and she thrashed them. hard. three times.




drugs only get you so far. that's what kids need to learn. drugs aren't a replacement for heart, guts, soul, whatever you want to call it. did Marion Jones cheat? yes. should she be shamed? yes. does it mean that she was unbeatable? not by a long shot.
Remember those amazing results Chinese female athletes had a few years ago in the long runs in athletics ?

Sadly, in the competitive world of top level sports sometimes people will do anything to win.

Crack down on all the sports druggies (and the suppliers, above all), be it athletics, cycling...it's not just about setting an example and the issue of cheating, it's about letting them compete safely, and healthy. Denounce scores and strip the medals for the past decade or two if you have to, and start over.

The only other alternative - stop trying to catch everyone, it's like police vs criminals always one step ahead and just let everyone loose and use whatever they want - is too scary.
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Old 10-09-2007, 04:45 AM   #22
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I wasn't really up on what steroids do - thanks for clarifying

I just think though, is that it still takes away the pride of winning if you had to take something to make yourself better, that isn't natural etc.

But on the other hand, i also think athletes shouldn't be held up in such high regard - wow you can run 100 metres in under 10 seconds... or
wow you found a way to treat agressive cancers so people can live 10 to 15 more years etc

bring on the sexy researcher/scientist idolisation!
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