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Old 10-25-2004, 10:17 AM   #61
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If anyone is to read any post this year, it's the one just above mine.

Headache, once again... you've won the thread.

good to see the degree in sports management has finally paid off
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Old 10-25-2004, 10:49 AM   #62
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Headache, that was the best CBA related post I have ever seen. Thanks for the argument topics I'm going to use later. You rule cool guy!
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Old 10-25-2004, 11:36 AM   #63
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only if you quote me
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Old 10-27-2004, 01:03 PM   #64
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Actually, I think this whole lockout topic has been drawn out in all my conversations. We just want it to end here...I just want hockey damnit!
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Old 10-28-2004, 09:41 AM   #65
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i get my hockey fix over at hfboards.com, it's a good site.

it's good to see more and more players step forward saying their reps aren't doing enough for them. montador is just the latest to do so.

unfortunately, it'll take a fedorov, sakic, or guerin to say something before nob good goodenow does anything.
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Old 10-28-2004, 03:42 PM   #66
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Did any of you see Nike's "Bring it Back" commercial? It almost made me cry.
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Old 10-29-2004, 07:29 AM   #67
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Actually, I think this whole lockout topic has been drawn out in all my conversations. We just want it to end here...I just want hockey damnit!
then i hope you enjoy minor league hockey... it will take a miracle for thereto be NHL hockey this season. the two sides aren't even remotely close... in fact, they aren't even talking.
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Old 10-29-2004, 02:58 PM   #68
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In defiance I wore my Leafs jersey and Leafs hat out today. It felt nice to wear a hockey jersey around....I miss it.
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Old 10-29-2004, 03:41 PM   #69
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I'm thinking of going to a Vancouver Giants game
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Old 10-29-2004, 10:30 PM   #70
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So, essentially a unilateral deal that conforms to every single demand delivered by the owners? Now that sounds reasonable to me...



The argument that players don't perform work is ridiculous. A great portion of the upper echelon athletes in the NHL realize they're in a very unique and privileged position, often sparking a movement towards providing philanthropy and exposure to causes or charities that do not normally receive any of the spotlight. Sometimes such civic duties are contractual obligations, but that doesn't take away from the fact that the players go beyond the boards of the rink to promote both the sport and their own team. Why should there be a cap that infringes on these players and their personal license? Since the spirit of this discussion so far has been directed towards outrageous analogies, do you think your cynicism regarding salaries has to do with hockey or entertainers in general?

If so, to be consistent, you would have to go to Bono's and Ed Begley Jr.'s respective houses and tell them that their agencies and companies have set a bar for their income, simply because what they do can't be classified as "work" in the purest of senses.

Why is the answer more regulation, in your opinion? Everything you have said so far is firmly entrenched in your own morality, which is a dangerous trait to have in diplomatic situations such as this... do I myself think the players deserve their wages? In some instances yes, but that has no bearing whatsoever on this process. To suggest that the player's association should disband on the grounds that their collective voice is fundamentally not important lends too much power to a governing body that has continually gone against its constituents' opinions... both players and fans alike.
My opinion is that the owners own the teams. the owners forked out the money, the players PLAY. They work out and train and PLAY. It is not work. Charity work is awesome but it's not working rigs now is it. The players should feel privilaged enough to have this opportunity that when it comes to a suggestion of a 6 million dollars per player salary cap they should be saying yeah that's fair. Comparing a pro athlete to a singer or movie star doesn't work since the movie stars and musicians are putting out a product and then earning off of that. Players are the product that the owners are putting out there. I mean in what other industry do the employers make more earnings in a year than the employer? Only in sports. It's insane and to think that the player "union" is looking out for the best interest of it's players is also insane. The union is concerned with the top 30 money makers in the league and that's it. I mean they could care less about the 3rd and 4th liners. Just look at how many players have recently come out saying yeah a salary cap would be acceptable. It only makes sense. The longer this goes on the more fucked the union is going to be. Oh and by the way.

Shit I can't talk about this on the internet. Too much to say. Honestly I'm more composed in person when discussing this.
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Old 10-30-2004, 12:27 AM   #71
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Anyone who's ever played in the most amatuer hockey scrimmage can tell you that hockey is indeed work. "Playing" is really a misleading term-- "performing" is more accurate.

Is being a professional athlete more fun than being a menial office worker? Sure. But it's not any easier. Is it essential work? No. But it is *hard* work. If it was easy, any loser on skates could make the pros.

Owners, on the other hand, do none of the work. They are making money off a product they "produce." But they do none of the work. Without the players, they've got nothing. No merchandising. No ticket sales. No revenue. Yeah, they pay the salaries. But they reap the majority of the benefits. Yes, a player might make 10 million dollars a year, plus bonuses. But how much does Stan Kronke make in a season? What has he done for the money? Has he been out there, getting hammered, suffering injuries, spending weeks away from home and family? No, he puts on a suit and signs the checks. I don't think Wal-Mart Stan has ever lost a spleen doing that.

Yes, financially, the team relies on the owner. Without his willingness to bring in players, they won't go far in the playoffs. But the owner relies just as heavily on the team. If they're not playing and playing well, he's got nothing. He provides the funding, they provide the work and create the product. That's how it works.

I just cannot buy they're not turning a profit and that life is really hard for the owners. Let me shed a tear for the billionares. If it sucks so much being a team owner, I'll gladly take the job, and they can come type memos and answer my phones.
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Old 10-31-2004, 01:37 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hallucination
They work out and train and PLAY. It is not work. Charity work is awesome but it's not working rigs now is it.
There's something fundamentally hilarious about that.



Apparently you're not a supporter of the player's association... which is fine. But to absolve the ownership of responsibility in this situation is ridiculous. Devaluing the product that the players turn out (which is hockey not themselves) by saying it's not proper work really has no bearing on this issue whatsoever. It's a dispute between two sides who are BOTH at fault, but it is the owners who created the economic turmoil. It is the owners who called the lockout.

The player's union might not be the most reputable organization in the world, but like any union they're trying to maintain their position and integrity... which includes both the top and lower income tiers. In that regard they're working to preserve the potential for their membership to earn salary, and for future players to have the same opportunity. It's a very shallow estimation to claim that the union represents only it's top earners... through the maintaining of the high-end contracts, by default all players are accommodated. It would be inconsistent of the player's association to disregard any set of its constituents, at the top or bottom.

A hockey career is a fleeting and dangerous occupation... the nhlpa is looking for compensation, and whether you agree with it or not they shouldn't automatically accept what the owners think is good for them. Sure, they get paid a lot... deserved or not, but that is arbitrary. The standard has been set and that is the framework that they negotiate through, regardless if some find their work to be less than valuable.
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Old 10-31-2004, 07:42 AM   #73
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This is getting worse by the day...At the moment, I've ceased to care about the NHLPA or the NHL, because they're putting me through undue stress. I can't vent out my anger without hockey! I need to be able to scream at the TV! I need to be able to tell Sundin to trip up over his skates, Khabibulin to stop making all those damn godly saves, Theodore to stop letting in all those pissy little shots, and Lecavalier to keep on taking stupid penalties because it's funny to watch him dig his damn team into a hole. I WANT HOCKEY NOW.
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Old 10-31-2004, 04:46 PM   #74
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You know one thing...the more players that play overseas just prove the owners point that they will work for less money and benefits.

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Old 11-01-2004, 12:42 PM   #75
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Originally posted by GibsonGirl
This is getting worse by the day...At the moment, I've ceased to care about the NHLPA or the NHL, because they're putting me through undue stress. I can't vent out my anger without hockey! I need to be able to scream at the TV! I need to be able to tell Sundin to trip up over his skates, Khabibulin to stop making all those damn godly saves, Theodore to stop letting in all those pissy little shots, and Lecavalier to keep on taking stupid penalties because it's funny to watch him dig his damn team into a hole. I WANT HOCKEY NOW.
make fun of lecavalier again and i'll send one of my "representatives" to your door.
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