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Old 03-04-2008, 08:20 PM   #391
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For us, big government means overgoverning. It means things like wiretapping, survelliance, banning gays from marriage and other rights, etc.
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Old 03-04-2008, 08:22 PM   #392
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Explain. Note that I'm mainly thinking healthcare, telecommunications, transport here.

Well there are always going to be federal issues and there will always have to be federal laws. Like I said, I am not an anarchist in any sense. Government is a good thing. I simply believe that those government chores are handled better on the state level. Tax money can be used in a more focused way to benefit the people in the area that the taxes come from.
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Old 03-04-2008, 08:25 PM   #393
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Our federal government currently does an absurd amount of spending. That has to be the first thing to go, or none of this rhetoric about smaller government means anything.
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Old 03-04-2008, 08:28 PM   #394
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Originally posted by phillyfan26
For us, big government means overgoverning. It means things like wiretapping, survelliance, banning gays from marriage and other rights, etc.
To me, in theory, small government should mean the government acts as a kind of neutral mediator, like a referee or an umpire. Big government takes an active role in the welfare of its citizens. Obviously that's an enormously gross simplification, but you see what I mean.

My favourite example, naturally, is the railways. The government should run the national network, primarily for social benefit with fiscal profit an important but secondary consideration. If anybody thinks they can do better, then they are free to establish a private company in competition with the government.
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Old 03-04-2008, 08:41 PM   #395
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Originally posted by Dalton
Well there are always going to be federal issues and there will always have to be federal laws. Like I said, I am not an anarchist in any sense. Government is a good thing. I simply believe that those government chores are handled better on the state level. Tax money can be used in a more focused way to benefit the people in the area that the taxes come from.
I'm not going to disagree with that, as there are obviously issues where local councils and state governments are far better suited. But in terms of things like healthcare, I think it's essential to nationalise that to take care of the entire citizenry equally; education, to establish national standards; transportation, because you need unified, cohesive national infrastructure to link the country, etc.
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Ian McCulloch the U2 fan:
"Who buys U2 records anyway? It's just music for plumbers and bricklayers. Bono, what a slob. You'd think with all that climbing about he does, he'd look real fit and that. But he's real fat, y'know. Reminds me of a soddin' mountain goat."
"And as for Bono, he needs a colostomy bag for his mouth."

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Old 03-04-2008, 08:42 PM   #396
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I just want the government to fuck off with telling people what to do. It's doing too much.

I mean, there's things it's not doing I want it do, i.e.: health care. There's things it's not doing it should be doing, i.e.: everyone gets equal rights, the rights are enforced.

So, I guess I just want my government to get its head out of its ass.
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Old 03-04-2008, 08:49 PM   #397
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To me, it seems like US politics are bogged down in hysteria and meddling with people who middle class white Christians don't like, and the concept of taking care of all citizens equally is absent. There seems to be an implicit "fuck the poor".
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Ian McCulloch the U2 fan:
"Who buys U2 records anyway? It's just music for plumbers and bricklayers. Bono, what a slob. You'd think with all that climbing about he does, he'd look real fit and that. But he's real fat, y'know. Reminds me of a soddin' mountain goat."
"And as for Bono, he needs a colostomy bag for his mouth."

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Old 03-04-2008, 08:53 PM   #398
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It's much easier to "feel" guilty about the sins of others out loud than to actually experience guilt.
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Old 03-04-2008, 08:56 PM   #399
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I always feel like such a serious leftie in these kinds of discussions. I'd say I'm comfortably in the mainstream left in all other Western societies, but in US politics, I really do feel on the fringe.
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Ian McCulloch the U2 fan:
"Who buys U2 records anyway? It's just music for plumbers and bricklayers. Bono, what a slob. You'd think with all that climbing about he does, he'd look real fit and that. But he's real fat, y'know. Reminds me of a soddin' mountain goat."
"And as for Bono, he needs a colostomy bag for his mouth."

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Old 03-04-2008, 08:57 PM   #400
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I think your views are for the most part similar to mine.

I think it's just that while neither of us understand the US right very well, I understand it a little bit better having lived here and knowing those people.
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Old 03-04-2008, 09:01 PM   #401
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The US right frankly scares the shit out of me because it is just so fucking extreme and wields so much power. The parties they would fit into here are by and large the wacky minor parties nobody would even dream of taking seriously.
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Ian McCulloch the U2 fan:
"Who buys U2 records anyway? It's just music for plumbers and bricklayers. Bono, what a slob. You'd think with all that climbing about he does, he'd look real fit and that. But he's real fat, y'know. Reminds me of a soddin' mountain goat."
"And as for Bono, he needs a colostomy bag for his mouth."

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Old 03-04-2008, 09:02 PM   #402
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It wields power because the US has a large population of religios fanatics and, as one FYM poster put it, "Fuck you, I got mine" attitudes. That's the United States Republican Party.
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Old 03-04-2008, 09:03 PM   #403
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On another note, PFan, I swear, Ziggy Stardust better be the second coming of Jesus. It's being a royal pain in the arse to transfer to my Mac for no apparent reason.
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Ian McCulloch the U2 fan:
"Who buys U2 records anyway? It's just music for plumbers and bricklayers. Bono, what a slob. You'd think with all that climbing about he does, he'd look real fit and that. But he's real fat, y'know. Reminds me of a soddin' mountain goat."
"And as for Bono, he needs a colostomy bag for his mouth."

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Old 03-04-2008, 09:06 PM   #404
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Originally posted by phillyfan26
It wields power because the US has a large population of religios fanatics and, as one FYM poster put it, "Fuck you, I got mine" attitudes. That's the United States Republican Party.
What I find interesting is a socio-religious comparison between the US and the rest of the Western world. Things were fairly equal a century ago, all things considered, but while the rest of the place secularised, you guys developed fundamentalism in a big way.

Personally, I think religion is in the first stages of its death throes in the Western world, and although the US lags behind most other places in social issues at present, it'll join the trend sooner or later.
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"Mediocrity is never so dangerous as when it is dressed up as sincerity." - Søren Kierkegaard

Ian McCulloch the U2 fan:
"Who buys U2 records anyway? It's just music for plumbers and bricklayers. Bono, what a slob. You'd think with all that climbing about he does, he'd look real fit and that. But he's real fat, y'know. Reminds me of a soddin' mountain goat."
"And as for Bono, he needs a colostomy bag for his mouth."

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Old 03-04-2008, 09:08 PM   #405
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On another note, PFan, I swear, Ziggy Stardust better be the second coming of Jesus. It's being a royal pain in the arse to transfer to my Mac for no apparent reason.
Well, it's not prog, but it's damn good. I think YLB put it best: "a classic in every sense of the word."

What other albums are you downloading?
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