Joy Division vs. New Order

[Lancemc]

You choose.

And tell us why.

Thank you.

 

[Axver]

Quite simple really. Joy Division were absolutely amazing, while most of what New Order has done has been horribly uninteresting.

 

[u2popmofo]

Joy Division


Their dark atmosphere and post-punk style is far more up my alley. I like the big New Order hits, but I've never gotten into them much past that.

 

[lazarus]

If you don't think New Order is very interesting, you haven't listen to enough of it.

New Order is perhaps the most groundbreaking band of the 1980's, fusing Joy Division's cutting edge rock sound with the most up to date (or ahead of their time) club sounds.

Curtis had something interesting to say, but I'm not so sure there was much more gas in that tank. It's not worth it to me, giving up all those New Order albums, just to see what JD would have done next.

And the last thing--New Order sure knew how to write and record a great pop song. If you think Love Will Tear Us Apart fits that bill, you're not even close. Not that the non-single songs are all filler (especially on the brilliant, rocking side one of Brotherhood--tell me this doesn't eclipse Joy Division's finest hour), but christ, look at this list of singles:

Blue Monday
Temptation
Bizarre Love Triangle
The Perfect Kiss
True Faith
Fine Time
Regret
Confusion
Round and Round
Crystal
Age of Consent
Krafty
Subculture

Not even The Smiths had this many killer tracks. No fucking contest.

 

[Lancemc]

New Order really did no how to write a killer pop song.

I'm having a ridiculously hard time choosing one over the other though...hence the thread and discussion.

 

[intedomine]

New Order

 

[Axver]

If you don't think New Order is very interesting, you haven't listen to enough of it.

Don't presume to know what I have and haven't listened to. I've heard plenty of New Order. Apart from Movement, which is largely decent, most of their work ranges from boring to downright bad. I don't care how innovative or up-to-date the club sounds supposedly were; they're as uninspiring as piss.

That said, I think Joy Division would have headed down a similar path had Curtis stayed alive, which would just have made them another band to prove the general rule that great bands have an unhappy tendency to go to shit after a few great albums.

 

[intedomine]

Don't presume to know what I have and haven't listened to. I've heard plenty of New Order. Apart from Movement, which is largely decent, most of their work ranges from boring to downright bad. I don't care how innovative or up-to-date the club sounds supposedly were; they're as uninspiring as piss.

and what makes porcupine tree inspring?

 

[Axver]

and what makes porcupine tree inspring?

WTF does that have to do with anything? Theirs is a completely different style of music ...

 

[Zoobaby14]

Ive been thinking about this the other day...

New Order gets my vote

Simply because they started rave music...

 

[Zoots]

Ever since I bought their Singles compilation I've been listening to a lot of New Order. What little I've heard of Joy Division I like but New Order wins here for the sheer number of delicious dance songs like True Faith, Bizarre..., Regret, Crystal etc.

 

[lazarus]

By the looks of the poll results, I imagine my thought of a Love & Rockets > Bauhaus thread probably won't go over too well.

 

[corianderstem]

New Order.

I've never been able to get into Joy Division. Other than the obvious Love Will Tear Us Apart, the songs do nothing for me.

 

[roy]

Joy Division. Two classic albums in 2 years against....eh, none.

 

[LMP]

WTF does that have to do with anything? Theirs is a completely different style of music ...

Gin Blossoms.

 

[lazarus]

Joy Division. Two classic albums in 2 years against....eh, none.

Really? Power, Corruption and Lies was in Rolling Stone's Top 50 albums of the 80, not to mention other lists from that decade.

And Substance...practically everyone I knew in high school owned that album.

 

[bollox]

new order. i view both kind of as "singles bands" and new order had more great songs than joy division. more bad ones too, but quantity wins out.

 

[roy]

Really? Power, Corruption and Lies was in Rolling Stone's Top 50 albums of the 80, not to mention other lists from that decade.

And Substance...practically everyone I knew in high school owned that album.

Substance is a compilation; while Rolling Stone is a non-entity.

 

[Lancemc]

but Power, Curruption and Lies is a magnificant album. As good as Unknown Pleasures personally.

 

[XHendrix24]

New Order, if only for the fact that they wrote "Temptation" and "Bizarre Love Triangle" and Joy Division didn't.

Really though, Joy Division were somewhat of a one-trick pony while New Order branched out a bit more and ended up with better songs with more variety. So my vote goes to them.

Oh, and "True Faith"...

 

[lazarus]

Really though, Joy Division were somewhat of a one-trick pony while New Order branched out a bit more and ended up with better songs with more variety. So my vote goes to them.

This is something the JD fans never manage to address, and it's not New Order's fault they lasted for 25 years.


As for Rolling Stone being a "non entity", roy, here's their Top 25:

1. London Calling - The Clash
2. Purple Rain - Prince & The Revolution
3. The Joshua Tree - U2
4. Remain In Light - Talking Heads
5. Graceland - Paul Simon
6. Born In The U.S.A. - Bruce Springsteen
7. Thriller - Michael Jackson
8. Murmur - REM
9. Shoot Out The Lights - Richard And Linda Thompson
10. Tracy Chapman - Tracy Chapman
11. Get Happy - Elvis Costello & The Attractions
12. It Takes A Nation Of Millions To Hold Us - Public Enemy
13. Diesel And Dust - Midnight Oil
14. So - Peter Gabriel
15. Let It Be - The Replacements
16. 1999 - Prince
17. Synchronicity - The Police
18. Dirty Mind - Prince
19. New York - Lou Reed
20. Pretenders - Pretenders
21. Rain Dogs - Tom Waits
22. The Smiths - The Smiths
23. Red - Black Uhuru
24. Los Angeles - X
25. Tunnel Of Love - Bruce Springsteen

Say what you want about the magazine (which actually used to be great up until around the mid 90's), but if this is the barometer, I consider their credibility, at least on this list, pretty legit.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

I'll be honest here and say that I only really know most of the more well-known songs by both artists, but I picked Joy Division simply because I enjoy what I've heard from them more. New Order has a song or two that I don't mind, and I do love me some electronic music from time to time, but whenever I hear a lot of their songs, it always seems to me after a while that they feel like they've been going on way...too...long. They may not actually be that lengthy, but it just feels that way to me, and I lose patience after a while.

Also, the "one-trick-pony" argument-well, I'd say that that's a bit hard to determine myself. Sometimes bands take a couple albums before they hit their stride. Yeah, Joy Division had a certain style to them, but had they gone on longer, who knows, they may very well have changed up their sound a bit more.

Angela

 

[intedomine]

Gin Blossoms.

Don't knock what you haven't tried.

 

[yertle-the-turtle]

New Order.

 

[roy]

Really though, Joy Division were somewhat of a one-trick pony

What? Is this the same band that went from writing basic punks tunes like Warsaw to sonic masterpieces like Decades in just three years?

 

[Salome]

Joy Division by quite a bit

 

[cobl04]

Gin Blossoms.

 

[LMP]

Don't knock what you haven't tried.

I'll snort some cocaine first then. Plus, I don't really like their 2 songs.

 

[gvox]

Woohoo, I missed the start of this but you KNOW I'm gonna come in on this Lance and Laz!

I don't have a preference, really, I think they are both brilliant and to say that NO had more substance or longevity is sortof hard for me to agree with...I mean it's based on a HUGE "what if" that can only hypothesized on, at most. (that being had Curtis not taken his life). I don't see them as separate entities, but simply one as logical progression/extension of the other.

I have no clue what people are on about tho when they say that New Order wrote far superior songs and JD was utterly depressing shit (and I know you're not of that extreme camp Laz). Have they ever seen a NO show? They do plenty of JD songs and when he does Barney doesnt fuck around with it and carrys Curtis' vocals well...which to me shows reverence for what was..and imo NO has never turned their back completely on the JD sound, it's alive and well in many of their greatest songs. After all, they ARE the original members of JD!! The 3 core instruments are the same players, with much the same style.

THe other comment that perplexes me is that NO is all boring electronica made by repetitve loops and samples. Honestly I think people might not understand what is and what isn't electronically produced in a NO song. One of their most beloved tracks, Bizarre Love Triangle...listen to the original track of that, just amazing. Quite alot of it was live, innovative and very musically interesting. Listen to Perfect Kiss and Temptation and/or their extended mixes, they are hella long but definitely not boring!! Well I guess that's all subjective to personal taste of course!

And then there's the sentiment of when bands grow and go further in their careers they become shit. I think thats crazy. How can a band be around for 25 years and NOT change? The music scene changes, musicians listen to other music and tastes change. You grow up. You get married. You get divorced. You're no longer slumming it out in your parent's basement pissed off at the infintesmally small world you've locked yourself up in. You've travelled the world, seen the 7 seas, and have a broader perspective. Of course your going to change! Change is good, not shit!

 

[gvox]

Not even The Smiths had this many killer tracks. No fucking contest.

Hmm. Im not sure about that, because some (edit: actually, a good portion) of those songs in your list well I don't consider their best work. I get the sense that your list isn't your faves per se, but what did commercially well?

Because if we leave commercial success out of the picture, I'd say the Smiths are pretty frickin awesome in their own right. Mind you, that is a one-trick pony if there ever was one. I love them to death, but they pretty much stuck to the program the entire way, even Morrissey's solo stuff.

Now...using your list....where would you put NO against Depeche Mode and The Cure? just curious...my vote still comes out NO on top, but man both those other bands really did alot of great stuff. ALOT.