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Old 02-19-2008, 10:57 PM   #16
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If it weren't for Willem Dafoe, I don't think I would've liked Spidey 1 as much as I did.

Plus, who would've been Spidey? Michael Biehn? He would've actually made a great Norman Osbourne/Green Goblin.
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Old 02-19-2008, 10:58 PM   #17
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Good call with Biehn for Osbourne.
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Old 02-19-2008, 11:00 PM   #18
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Thanks.

Ahnuld as Doc Ock might've worked; Paxton as Dr. Conners/The Lizard would've pwned, too.

Speaking of Cameron, I just picked up The Abyss (the 2006 release, I believe) brand new from Half.com for 6.50, including shipping. That's a fucking deal.
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Old 02-19-2008, 11:00 PM   #19
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Originally posted by LemonMacPhisto
If it weren't for Willem Dafoe, I don't think I would've liked Spidey 1 as much as I did.

Plus, who would've been Spidey? Michael Biehn? He would've actually made a great Norman Osbourne/Green Goblin.
Agreed. Dafoe was awesome.

What's the general opinion on Maguire as Spiderman? Not just you guys (though feel free), but in general?
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Old 02-19-2008, 11:03 PM   #20
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I'm not too sure, he seems to play a similar part in every film I've seen him in: Spidey flicks, The Cider House Rules, Pleasantville...
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Old 02-19-2008, 11:06 PM   #21
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I think he was fine. And I think most people responded well enough to him in general too, though I know there was a similar worry with him like there was later with Craig and James Bond.
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Old 02-19-2008, 11:10 PM   #22
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Are they still pushing ahead for a Spidey 4 with the same cast/crew? I hope they don't pull a Batman Forever on everyone and overhaul everything terribly.
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Old 02-19-2008, 11:13 PM   #23
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The Abyss is Cameron's masterpiece. What sets it apart is that the effects take a backseat to the human story (unlike T2), and the script is actually good (unlike Titanic). In some ways, it surpasses Close Encounters because it looks more deeply into the way some people react negatively to the unknown. It's preachier, and suffers as a result, but what it does well it does VERY well. And the characters are very well-drawn.
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Old 02-19-2008, 11:17 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by lazarus
The Abyss is Cameron's masterpiece. What sets it apart is that the effects take a backseat to the human story (unlike T2), and the script is actually good (unlike Titanic). In some ways, it surpasses Close Encounters because it looks more deeply into the way some people react negatively to the unknown. It's preachier, and suffers as a result, but what it does well it does VERY well. And the characters are very well-drawn.


He agrees, but can't stop twitching.
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Old 02-20-2008, 02:11 AM   #25
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Speaking of twitching, I think you're down to 24 hours on that Citizen Kane time clock, buddy.
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Old 02-20-2008, 03:31 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by lazarus
The Abyss is Cameron's masterpiece. What sets it apart is that the effects take a backseat to the human story (unlike T2), and the script is actually good (unlike Titanic). In some ways, it surpasses Close Encounters because it looks more deeply into the way some people react negatively to the unknown. It's preachier, and suffers as a result, but what it does well it does VERY well. And the characters are very well-drawn.
I'll admit I sniffed some gold paint earlier and perhaps smoked a dog turd or some other excriment but to say the Abyss is better than Close Enounters....

Fucking Dreyfus is not in Abyss, dude. Look it up.

Dreyfus owns the screen, ask him, he'll tell you.

I suppose you think you know movies.

What's better Richard Dreyfus or a face full of Natalie Portman's box? Haha, exactly.

The joke is on you, raised from the dead.
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Old 02-20-2008, 03:38 AM   #27
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Originally posted by LemonMacPhisto
Nice.

Fuck, I wish he could've done Spider-Man. Not that I don't love Raimi's interpretations, but it's fucking James Cameron, man. Then again, it could've been as weird as Tim Burton doing Superman with Nicolas Cage.
Maybe I'm reaching but a zombie Spider Man might be pretty cool.

Same character evaluations. Tobey Maguire=win

James Cameron doing Spiderman, that would have been awesome. I don't know about Kyle Reese as Spiderman but perhaps that dude with the Shakesperian belabored breathing in T2? I mean that's ACTING fuckfaces!

He was going to die, so he had to breathe quickly!!! And he was nervous and stuff!!!! The Academy can eat his dick.
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Old 02-20-2008, 03:45 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by lazarus
The Abyss is Cameron's masterpiece. What sets it apart is that the effects take a backseat to the human story (unlike T2), and the script is actually good (unlike Titanic). In some ways, it surpasses Close Encounters because it looks more deeply into the way some people react negatively to the unknown. It's preachier, and suffers as a result, but what it does well it does VERY well. And the characters are very well-drawn.
I had heard about this but probably confused it with another sci fi film, The Sphere or something. I generally stay away from sci fi films, but I'll check this one out.

The only this is that I HATE James Cameron as a human being. I was watching this behind-the-scenes thing on the filming of Alien 2 and he was constantly pushing the British crew to not have their legal breaks and really exploited them to make his masterpiece. He's all raw ambition and very little decency. He would scream cruelly at people on the set of Terminator, too. He may get the fame and money, but those production people are still working the same working class jobs the next week. Why should they sacrifice their physical and mental well-being so this jerk can get rich? That really upset me when I saw that. He did discover Lance Henriksen, who was supposed to be the Terminator, and Chris Carter proved what a fantastic actor he is in Millennium Season 1, I guess....

However, I'll try to check out The Abyss.
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Old 02-20-2008, 03:54 AM   #29
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Originally posted by phillyfan26


Agreed. Dafoe was awesome.

What's the general opinion on Maguire as Spiderman? Not just you guys (though feel free), but in general?
I was really disappointed in the Spider man films, and didn't understand why all the critics loved Spider man 2. Unlike Bryan Singer's more realistic attempt at X-Men (he stripped away a lot of the terrible dialogue and speechifying, despite casting the awful Halle Berry) and X-Men 2, Raimi's interpretation of Spiderman 2 felt even more childish than I'd remembered from my teen years reading comic books. Spiderman was never as good or as complex as X-Men, though the mid to late '80s storylines I remember reading from my older brother's stash were quite excellent), it should have been a decent film.

I thought McGuire was fine, but when I asked my older brother what he thought, he thought he was nerdier than he remembered from the comics. I think he was right. Spiderman was an unpopular kid but, by the time he became Spiderman, he was a confident guy. McGuire's whiny voice doesn't help, either. They kind of overdid the childish aspects. He is a great actor, though. Lots of subtlety in his face, but the script just wasn't very good.

Anyway, what did you think, fellow 4400er?
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Old 02-20-2008, 09:26 AM   #30
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Muldfield: I agree about the Spider-Man trilogy, I find it horribly overrated. The second part was the best, but far from "the greatest comic book movie of all time", as some seem to think it is.

I agree that Singer brought much more credibility to X-Men, and even though he left before the third installment, Brett Ratner couldn't fuck up what he had already laid out, and X3 was a passable conclusion to the trilogy. Raimi's third film was more cluttered than a Star Wars CGI establishing shot.

And I despise Cameron as well. The only films of his that I think are worthy of their reputations are the first Terminator, Aliens (which I think isn't even close to Ridley's original), and The Abyss.
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