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Old 09-18-2007, 08:59 PM   #526
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Green was actually mentored by Malick, and is friends with him. I'm pretty sure Malick produced or executive produced Undertow. He's obviously a more urban filmmaker than Malick, the pictures less pretty, but he has the same way of shooting as if you're eavesdropping on random conversation that is somehow very profound.
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Old 09-18-2007, 09:02 PM   #527
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I don't know that Darth Maul really deserved more screen time. Dooku was a more fascinating character because of his former Jedi status, and how you weren't really sure what his motives were (look how he tells Obi-Wan EXACTLY what's happening when he captures him in Clones). Like Boba Fett, Maul looked cool but had, what, 3 lines of dialogue? The difference is that at least Maul had a glorious exit, getting sliced in half by Obi-Wan, instead of getting accidentally knocked into the Sarlacc pit by a blind and stumbling Han Solo.
The next edition of Jedi better have a scene at the end of the credits with a big Fettman hand coming out of the sand. That would be badass.

Anakin's path to the Dark Side was hinted at greatly in the previous films, but his final decision in III was too abrupt for my tastes.

That being said, Palpy might be my 4th fave character of the entire series, behind Han Solo, Yoda, and Obi-Wan.
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Old 09-18-2007, 09:02 PM   #528
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Green was actually mentored by Malick, and is friends with him. I'm pretty sure Malick produced or executive produced Undertow. He's obviously a more urban filmmaker than Malick, the pictures less pretty, but he has the same way of shooting as if you're eavesdropping on random conversation that is somehow very profound.
I guess that's what I meant about being a witness.

I don't know a whole hell of a lot about film, but I'd have been surprised if Green was not at all influenced by Mallick.
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Old 09-18-2007, 09:04 PM   #529
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The next edition of Jedi better have a scene at the end of the credits with a big Fettman hand coming out of the sand. That would be badass.

Anakin's path to the Dark Side was hinted at greatly in the previous films, but his final decision in III was too abrupt for my tastes.

That being said, Palpy might be my 4th fave character of the entire series, behind Han Solo, Yoda, and Obi-Wan.
I've said it before...the scene where Palpatine works on Annakin during that Cirque du Soleil or whatever it was is my favorite scene from any Star Wars film not named "Empire Strikes Back"
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Old 09-18-2007, 09:06 PM   #530
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I've said it before...the scene where Palpatine works on Annakin during that Cirque du Soleil or whatever it was is my favorite scene from any Star Wars film not named "Empire Strikes Back"
He gave the single-best performance of any character in the saga that's not named (Alec Guinness's) Obi-Wan.
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Old 09-18-2007, 09:07 PM   #531
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Well, 3rd best, YLB, behind Alec and behind C-3PO in Empire. "But siiirrrrrrr!!!!"
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Old 09-18-2007, 09:08 PM   #532
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"Oh I'm terribly sorry please don't get up, ahhh!"

3PO was completely useless in the prequels, I mean his little schtick in the arena fight was unnecessary.
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Old 09-18-2007, 09:11 PM   #533
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"Echutah"

"How rude"

Fucking 3-PO. He steals some scenes....then he steals your heart.
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Old 09-18-2007, 09:12 PM   #534
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"Artoo says that the chances of survival are 725 to 1. Actually Artoo has been known to make mistakes... from time to time..."

He's the Swoop of the Original Trilogy.
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Old 09-18-2007, 09:16 PM   #535
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He's the Swoop of the Original Trilogy.

I don't know, that cracked me the fuck up.

I'd watch that sit-com, Swoop with C3-PO in a remaking of the Odd Couple. Swoop is Oscar, 3PO is Felix and we're all lucky just to witness it.
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Old 09-18-2007, 09:20 PM   #536
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Mix it with some Three's Company and it's perfect.

Grimlock = Mr. Furley.
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Old 09-18-2007, 09:22 PM   #537
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YLB, watch "All the Real Girls".
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Old 09-18-2007, 09:22 PM   #538
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A couple things, I'm glad you seemed to read it with an open mind, Lance, and you have to imagine Wallace with tongue firmly planted in cheek. If you ever feel like reading a nearly 1,000 page novel about entertainment and addiction which takes place simultaneously at a alcoholic's halfway house and a tennis academy, pick up Infinite Jest. It's one of the best, and funniest things I've ever read. Check out the reviews on Amazon or the Wikipedia page. This thing has legions of followers.

Anyway, back to the films. I don't really concern myself much with the arguments against SFX, though I do agree that for the MOST part, the idea that returning the studio's investment by lowering the intelligence of your films, and thereby resulting in a poorer film, is not an erroneous one. Star Wars is obviously exempt from this, as they are funded by Lucas himself, and any weaknesses are because of his own tendencies, as opposed to commercial concerns.

I think what he has to say about the screenplay is much more apt criticism. The idea that Arnold dictated the use of his character is pretty pathetic, though I imagine Cameron didn't have much of a choice if he wanted to go ahead and make his film. And I don't think I need to say anything about the use of another whiny kid in an otherwise adult-themed film.

It's a trite screenplay, plain and simple. There are some great action scenes and breakthrough effects, and I feel that while those elements served the story in The Abyss, they overwhelmed them here.
Maybe I'll check out more of the guy's work, since you seem to recommend him so strongly.

As for Arnold demanding that character change, whether or not it's a good reflection on him as an actor is up for argument, but I think I lot of people are just put off because of the change in dynamic, and simply liked seeing Arnold as the bad guy. That said, I think Cameron handled his character in T2 wonderfully, and consequently introduced an even more fascinating and frightening villain with Robert Partick. Yeah, yeah yeah, Edward Furlong is annoying, whatever. He's still better than a lot of kid actors that wind up in our movies if not very good.

Honestly, T2 was only ever made so Cameron could afford to pursue his other passions for the next decade or so, that's pretty clear. And I know a lot of people have problems with films with that sort of creative ignition. But as a sequel, I think Cameron made the best and most logically follow-up he could under the circumstances, and delivered one of, if not the finest action experience ever put to film (if I may be so bold). I think it's a bit unfair to call the script "trite". I mean, this isn't exactly Philip K. Dick or anything, but it's a competent narritive (honestly, it's not 2001 we're talking about, but the narrative elements all work and follow an internal logic) with characters I find extremely compelling. Though I can understand disliking them, as with characters from any film.

As far as Cameron's Big 4 as concerned (T1, Aliens, The Abyss, T2), I feel they all deomonstrate the same ideals and action-driven construction, with each film becoming progessively more precise and compelling, while being essentially "Cameron". Which is why my biggest issue with this man's criticism comes from, being his praise of T1 and Aliens and his damnation of T2, where they're essentially all birthed form the same mold and filmmaking perspectives.

But the heart and soul of any Cameron film is in the action. In his expert ability to deliver building cycles of tension and release, often climaxing in visually spectacular fits of action unlike any other director can deliver. If I were to really dig into his films, as I love to do, I'd examine how not only his explosive action sequences but everything down to his moments of dead stillness in between are carefully composed and choreographed in what I personally consider the finest cinematic thrill-rides of the past 30 years. I view his films like a masterfully composed ballet or Opera. The lyric might not be the most believeable or intelligent story (Though nearly always competent, and usually thorougly compelling for the purpose), but the dance, the theatric performance, is the key mode of expression. I wouldn't go as far as to call it "style as substance", because that's not what it is. It's the craft, the velocity, and even to some extent the inherent art in the techinical mastery that serves the same purpose for me as the narritives in other films, or the art-house intricacies of others.

[/end Cameron rant]
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Old 09-18-2007, 09:24 PM   #539
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YLB, watch "All the Real Girls".
I'll watch it in conjuction with my Malick-athon.

The New Marathon List:
1. PT-athon
2. Scorces-athon.
3. Mann-athon
4. Malick-athon
4a. "All the Real Girls"
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Old 09-18-2007, 09:25 PM   #540
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Maybe I'll check out more of the guy's work, since you seem to recommend him so strongly.

[/end Cameron rant]
I know you're talking to Lazarus and not me, but if you do not read Infinite Jest, read Consider the Lobster. The former is a novel, the latter a collection of pieces he's written for various publications.
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