namkcuR
ONE love, blood, life
I'd say sometime in the late 80s when he realized that the VHS set of the OT was still selling like it was brand new, and that he could basically print 'Star Wars' on anything and it would sell the same.
Interference Random Movie Talk
- Thread starter Lancemc
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
- Status
LMP
Blue Crack Supplier
It had to have been before Return of the Jedi when he replaced Wookies with Ewoks to sell more merch and completely pussy-whipped Han Solo and that's Sellout Point #1.
Then there's Temple of Doom... which is almost like the Jedi of the Indy series.
Then there's Temple of Doom... which is almost like the Jedi of the Indy series.
namkcuR
ONE love, blood, life
Does it worry anyone else that the guy who wrote the dialog for the 'love' scenes between Anakin and Padme in the PT is the guy that basically said 'no' to the first Indy 4 script because he didn't like the dialog?
LMP
Blue Crack Supplier
What? When did this happen?
The dialogue in the original trilogy wasn't exactly Shakespeare either, but it was the charisma of the cast, mainly Harrison Ford, who could sound legit with those ridiculous lines.
It doesn't hurt that I believe Alec Guinness has ever said.
The dialogue in the original trilogy wasn't exactly Shakespeare either, but it was the charisma of the cast, mainly Harrison Ford, who could sound legit with those ridiculous lines.
It doesn't hurt that I believe Alec Guinness has ever said.
OP
OP
Lancemc
Blue Crack Addict
Star Wars and American Grafitti are lame too. Outside of some fairly impressive feats of student filmmaking in Star Wars, Lucas was never more than a decent director in those days.
Since then he's reached horrifying levels of ineptitude and insanity.
Since then he's reached horrifying levels of ineptitude and insanity.
namkcuR
ONE love, blood, life
I swear, I remember reading that when Lucas/Speilberg/Ford first agreed to do a new Indy film, that the first step was settling on a script, and that since Lucas owns the rights to Indy, he basically had the final say, and he said no, and the script had to be changed before he agreed to it.
LMP
Blue Crack Supplier
Wait, the original Star Wars film is lame?
No spoken words
Blue Crack Supplier
Frank Darabont wrote a treatment for Indy IV, and Lucas rejected it.
OP
OP
Lancemc
Blue Crack Addict
LemonMacPhisto said:
Pretty much. I've grown out of it, and what's left is impressive if not great filmmaking and little more.
LMP
Blue Crack Supplier
It still sucks me in after watching it about 50 times.
namkcuR
ONE love, blood, life
Lancemc said:
Pretty much. I've grown out of it, and what's left is impressive if not great filmmaking and little more.
You've grown out of the original Star Wars film, or Star Wars films in general?
OP
OP
Lancemc
Blue Crack Addict
namkcuR said:
Just the first one really. The prequels don't count, because they blow. Return of the Jedi still does it for me, because despite not being a great film, it still has a enough interesting scenes to keep me entertained.
I personally think The Empire Strikes Back is the only truly great film in the entire franchise, and I can still watch that one from time to time and leave fulfilled.
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
It appears I'm late again. Allow me to step in here as a Lucas apologist and put my two cents in. First of all, if all Lucas was concerned about was money, he could have released Star Wars on DVD a lot sooner. There was NEVER a VHS or DVD release of any Star Wars material that didn't incorporate some significant technical improvement. You have the original individual releases, the first trilogy boxed set, the THX boxed set, and then the special edition boxed set. That's it for VHS. The special editions have been issued ONCE on DVD, and the original cuts ONCE on DVD. Yes, tons have money has been made off of merchandising--like any other fucking genre film in the last 30 years.
Secondly, I take issue with the notion that Lucas is a bad director. Getting good performances out of your actors is certainly not something that Lucas excels at--seasoned actors tend to fare a lot better. But to me, a rate a director primarily on his visual skills, and in terms of frame composition, Lucas is up there with anyone in cinema today. He has a classic style inspired by Ford and Kurosawa, and knows how to fill a widescreen shot. Granted, the prequels often feature too much clutter in these frames, but the compositions themselves are first rate. He's also a great director of action scenes, despite relying too heavily on cross-cutting in ROTJ and Episode 1. I'll grant you that the original Star Wars doesn't feature very interesting filmmaking, but considering the man had already made the extremely sophisticated THX-1138, it's clear to me this was the intended style. The prequels, by comparison, are much more sophisticated than the originals in terms of their compositions and montage.
Peter Jackson, on the other hand, relied way too heavily on sweeping overhead crane shots for LOTR, and that awful Zombie Cam crap with the altered shudder speed. Total amateur hour technique. He's a great director of actors and a great storyteller, but the images in LOTR triumphed more because of the art department than any superior shotmaking skills of the director.
All this SW and Lucas hate is coming from a James Cameron fan? You talk about the prequels being terrible but Jedi watchable because of great individual scenes? The Phantom Menace may be a mess but it has a wealth of great scenes and moments. The same goes for Clones, and Sith I don't even feel like I need to defend. You may not agree with the man's vision, but it is HIS, and there are plenty of ways he could have gone the cheap moneymaking route had he wanted to, instead of waiting for technology to catch up to his ideas.
A gallery:
Secondly, I take issue with the notion that Lucas is a bad director. Getting good performances out of your actors is certainly not something that Lucas excels at--seasoned actors tend to fare a lot better. But to me, a rate a director primarily on his visual skills, and in terms of frame composition, Lucas is up there with anyone in cinema today. He has a classic style inspired by Ford and Kurosawa, and knows how to fill a widescreen shot. Granted, the prequels often feature too much clutter in these frames, but the compositions themselves are first rate. He's also a great director of action scenes, despite relying too heavily on cross-cutting in ROTJ and Episode 1. I'll grant you that the original Star Wars doesn't feature very interesting filmmaking, but considering the man had already made the extremely sophisticated THX-1138, it's clear to me this was the intended style. The prequels, by comparison, are much more sophisticated than the originals in terms of their compositions and montage.
Peter Jackson, on the other hand, relied way too heavily on sweeping overhead crane shots for LOTR, and that awful Zombie Cam crap with the altered shudder speed. Total amateur hour technique. He's a great director of actors and a great storyteller, but the images in LOTR triumphed more because of the art department than any superior shotmaking skills of the director.
All this SW and Lucas hate is coming from a James Cameron fan? You talk about the prequels being terrible but Jedi watchable because of great individual scenes? The Phantom Menace may be a mess but it has a wealth of great scenes and moments. The same goes for Clones, and Sith I don't even feel like I need to defend. You may not agree with the man's vision, but it is HIS, and there are plenty of ways he could have gone the cheap moneymaking route had he wanted to, instead of waiting for technology to catch up to his ideas.
A gallery:
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
and a few more...
OP
OP
Lancemc
Blue Crack Addict
I see what you're saying lazarus, but I respectfully disagree. Direction, as you surely know involves a lot more than composition and framing, and while he's capable at that, and can produce some entertaining action scenes here and there, his Star Wars films just don't come across as very good movies, I'm sorry. The flaws are just too overbearing, that any of the things he does right, simply aren't enough to carry the film. As pretty as the prequels are, none of them tell a compelling story, and the performances are mostly atrocious. And if I really don't care what's going on at all, the prettiest photography in the world isn't going to save the film for me.
As for his visuals, I respect the man for his pioneering of special effects, and he certainly has an eye for the frame, but a lot of scenes in his films are rarely exceptional in those respects, just better than average. And the ones that are, come so infrequently or are spoiled by awful acting or writing, that it hardly matters to me.
That said, I think we hold Lucas up to higher standards than most directors, perhaps unfairly. I know I do. But when you create the single most popular entertainment franchise in modern history, that kind of thing can happen.
I just wish the man would stick to executive producing most of the time.
But, I must give him credit for pushing digital filmmaking into the mainstream.
Even if I couldn't stand the film.
As for his visuals, I respect the man for his pioneering of special effects, and he certainly has an eye for the frame, but a lot of scenes in his films are rarely exceptional in those respects, just better than average. And the ones that are, come so infrequently or are spoiled by awful acting or writing, that it hardly matters to me.
That said, I think we hold Lucas up to higher standards than most directors, perhaps unfairly. I know I do. But when you create the single most popular entertainment franchise in modern history, that kind of thing can happen.
I just wish the man would stick to executive producing most of the time.But, I must give him credit for pushing digital filmmaking into the mainstream.
Even if I couldn't stand the film.
LMP
Blue Crack Supplier
Those are some great shots you compiled, he is a great technical director, really great at anything other than directing actors, like you said. The biggest problem with the prequels were that so much emphasis was placed on the visuals and effects compared to the story and most of the character development that it falls flat under its own weight.
The prequel series handled the Clone Wars, Jedi vs. Sith, Rise of Palpatine, and pure action scenes incredibly well, but the central part of the story, the conflict of Anakin and how he became Darth Vader was terrible. If Episode II was the beginning of the story, with Episode I being like a prologue and it was teenaged to young adult Anakin having to deal with these emotional issues of love, loss, and service, then it would've been a stronger trilogy.
Episode III's biggest problem was Anakin's shift to the dark side, which happened in about 30 seconds. Sure it had been building throughout the series, but regretting killing Mace one moment and pledging himself to Palpatine the next was so half-assed and shoddy... dear God.
I should probably bad mouth the prequels less than I do, they truly are technical feats in cinema, but like I said earlier, when it gets in the way of the story Lucas is trying to tell, then what's the point?
(I could probably write a full essay on this, but I'll spare you all.
)
The prequel series handled the Clone Wars, Jedi vs. Sith, Rise of Palpatine, and pure action scenes incredibly well, but the central part of the story, the conflict of Anakin and how he became Darth Vader was terrible. If Episode II was the beginning of the story, with Episode I being like a prologue and it was teenaged to young adult Anakin having to deal with these emotional issues of love, loss, and service, then it would've been a stronger trilogy.
Episode III's biggest problem was Anakin's shift to the dark side, which happened in about 30 seconds. Sure it had been building throughout the series, but regretting killing Mace one moment and pledging himself to Palpatine the next was so half-assed and shoddy... dear God.
I should probably bad mouth the prequels less than I do, they truly are technical feats in cinema, but like I said earlier, when it gets in the way of the story Lucas is trying to tell, then what's the point?
(I could probably write a full essay on this, but I'll spare you all.
)
Last edited:
OP
OP
Lancemc
Blue Crack Addict
How does random film discussion always find its way back to Star Wars?
LMP
Blue Crack Supplier
Because we like to party.
OP
OP
Lancemc
Blue Crack Addict
This aint no party.
This aint no disco.
This aint no foolin around.
This aint no disco.
This aint no foolin around.
LMP
Blue Crack Supplier
Stop Making Sense, one of the best concert films ever?
possibly
possibly
OP
OP
Lancemc
Blue Crack Addict
It's better than Star Wars.
LMP
Blue Crack Supplier
Take it easy, Champ.
OP
OP
Lancemc
Blue Crack Addict
Just a lame joke.
Although, the more I think about it...
Although, the more I think about it...
LMP
Blue Crack Supplier
Native Melody >>> Yub Nub
OP
OP
Lancemc
Blue Crack Addict
Only slightly.
OP
OP
Lancemc
Blue Crack Addict
Sooo, does anyone want Alex Garland's Halo script?
OP
OP
Lancemc
Blue Crack Addict
Major INDY IV spoilers await below:
http://www.aintitcool.com/node/34088
Also confirming something I suspected for a while.
http://www.aintitcool.com/node/34088
Also confirming something I suspected for a while.
elevated_u2_fan
Blue Crack Supplier
Lancemc said:How does random film discussion always find its way back to Star Wars?
forget film discussions, how about ALL discussions...
The answer to this question is two-fold:
1. Star Wars = Awesome
2. We = Nerds
There you have it folks...
And for the record, I agree with Laz that Lucas has his moments, it's a shame they are fewer and more far between in the prequels...
One of my biggest complaints about the prequels is Darth Maul. This guy is all kinds of awesome, why was it necessary to kill him off in the first film? I say keep him coming back in all three...
LMP
Blue Crack Supplier
Lancemc said:Sooo, does anyone want Alex Garland's Halo script?
if it's as good as the Death Proof script, I'll be happy.
LMP
Blue Crack Supplier
elevated_u2_fan said:
It had to happen though because of the Sith Rule of 2. There can only be one master to one apprentice. The Jedi do the same thing, that's why there was a hubbub when Qui-Gon wanted to take on Anakin as his apprentice when Obi-Wan was still considered his apprentice already.
With Maul out of the picture, Palpy could set his sights on Anakin.
- Status
