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Old 09-02-2007, 12:37 AM   #211
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Lance--that doesn't take away from the notion that SPR has weak characters and a weak script. Not to mention it was made by someone who was just a student of war films, instead of a veteran himself. You look at the war films of Samuel Fuller and see someone who really knows what it was like, specifically his WW2 epic The Big Red One, which was re-released with an extended cut not too long ago. Fuller was actually AT Omaha Beach, and there is more truth in one frame of his film than the entirety of Spielberg's. You want to talk about "earning it", Fuller did in spades.

Lemon--I have not seen Empire of the Sun and would like to at some point. The less said about Munich, the better. Once again some good filmmaking marred by some truly awful choices--the sex scene at the end juxtaposed with the Munich flashbacks is one of the most awkward things I've ever seen, and the meeting between the Palestinians and the Israelis in the safe house was totally phony, while attempting to have the politics of the film both ways. And it wasn't nearly as thought-provoking as some of its supporters seem to believe. Even when S.S. thinks he's being controversial, it's still a compromise.
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Old 09-02-2007, 12:46 AM   #212
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Munich wasn't perfect, the sex/flashback scene in particular, but overall it's a good film, at least really enjoyable.

About Spielberg/Private Ryan, does someone have to be involved in the war to make a believable war film?

David Lean wasn't a POW but still made Bridge on the River Kwai.
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Old 09-02-2007, 04:28 AM   #213
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I don't really care how realistic a film is, as long as it's a good film, which I beileve SPR is. I don't think the characters are weak, and I think it has a fine script. Whatever.
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Old 09-02-2007, 03:50 PM   #214
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Quote:
Originally posted by LemonMacPhisto
About Spielberg/Private Ryan, does someone have to be involved in the war to make a believable war film?
[/B]

No, but it adds yet another layer of disbelief to a film that I find to be a pretty empty flag-waving (literally, at the end!) exercise.

Also, the film suggests you're seeing the action through Hanks' character's eyes at the beginning, only to reveal Damon's character as the old man at the end, which is totally cheap and false. If the old man is Ryan, how could he be remembering the events at Omaha Beach?

As usual with Spielberg, little is left up to the audience to process for themselves, as the screenplay and music combine to make sure you're feeling exactly you're supposed to be feeling as a patriotic American.

Again, I can only suggest a viewing of The Big Red One to see a truly great depiction of World War II, made by a man who was at some of its most famous scenes, and who never tries to beat you over the head with a jingo stick, or convince you how heroic it is to die for the powers that be.
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Old 09-02-2007, 03:53 PM   #215
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Quote:
Originally posted by lazarus
Also, the film suggests you're seeing the action through Hanks' character's eyes at the beginning, only to reveal Damon's character as the old man at the end, which is totally cheap and false. If the old man is Ryan, how could he be remembering the events at Omaha Beach?
I completely agree with this.

Saving Private Ryan's flawed, but still enjoyable.
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Old 09-02-2007, 05:17 PM   #216
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Mr Bean's Holiday is coming!!!!!!!!!!!!


Discuss.................
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Old 09-02-2007, 07:03 PM   #217
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Quote:
Originally posted by lazarus
You guys really need to see The Man Who Wasn't There, an amazing blend of all the film noir staples with their unique sense of humor and visuals. If you're at all a fan of Thornton, you're going to love him in this. Tony Shalhoub, a great Coen supporting actor in the past, is on fire here. I'm not going to spoil anything about the film, but I think the final line/shot is one of the most poignant in their entire filmography.

From a visual standpoint, the black & white photography is perfection. The DVD actually has a lengthy interview with Roger Deakins about cinematography that's a real treat. Best of all is the rarity of the Coen Bros. in a commentary, along with Billy Bob. Their recognizable laughter is present through a good portion of the film.
Yep, it's tied for my 2nd fave along with Lebowski behind Barton Fink. Couldn't have asked for a better film to watch today.
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Old 09-03-2007, 04:06 PM   #218
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I finally got around to watching The Big Lebowski this past week.

Brilliant.

I was struck by the perfection of the delivery of every line by every actor. John Goodman in particular was born to be Walter Sobchak.

The scene at the mortuary near the end is my favorite in the film...

THE DUDE AND WALTER

---

They sit side by side, forearms on knees, in a nondescript
waiting area. Walter bounces the fingertips of one hand off
those of the other. They sit. They wait.

A tall thin man in a conservative black suit enters. He
eyes the Dude's bowling attire and sunglasses and Walter's
army surplus, but doesn't make an issue of it.

MAN
Hello, gentlemen. You are the
bereaved?

DUDE
Yeah man.

MAN
Francis Donnelly. Pleased to meet
you.

DUDE
Jeffrey Lebowski.

WALTER
Walter Sobchak.

DUDE
The Dude, actually. Is what, uh.

DONNELLY
Excuse me?

DUDE
Nothing.

DONNELLY
Yes. I understand you're taking
away the remains.

WALTER
Yeah.

DONNELLY
We have the urn.

He nods through a door. Another man in a black suit enters
to carefully deposit a large silver urn on the desktop.

DONNELLY
And I assume this is credit card?

He is vaguely handing a large leather folder across the desk
to whomever wants to take it.

WALTER
Yeah.

He takes it, opens it, puts on reading glasses that sit
halfway down his nose, and inspects the bill with his head
pulled back for focus and cocked for concentration. Silence.
The Dude smiles at Donnelly. Donnelly gives back a
mortician's smile. At length Walter holds the bill towards
Donnelly, pointing.

WALTER
What's this?

DONNELLY
That is for the urn.

WALTER
Don't need it. We're scattering the
ashes.

DONNELLY
Yes, so we were informed. However,
we must of course transmit the remains
to you in a receptacle.

WALTER
This is a hundred and eighty dollars.

DONNELLY
Yes sir. It is our most modestly
priced receptacle.

DUDE
Well can we--

WALTER
A hundred and eighty dollars?!

DONNELLY
They range up to three thousand.

WALTER
Yeah, but we're--

DUDE
Can we just rent it from you?

DONNELLY
Sir, this is a mortuary, not a rental
house.

WALTER
We're scattering the fucking ashes!

DUDE
Walter--

WALTER
JUST BECAUSE WE'RE BEREAVED DOESN'T
MEAN WE'RE SAPS!

DONNELLY
Sir, please lower your voice--

DUDE
Hey man, don't you have something
else you could put it in?

DONNELLY
That is our most modestly priced
receptacle.

WALTER
GODDAMNIT! IS THERE A RALPH'S AROUND
HERE?!



Furthermore, the following scene in which Walter actually scatters the ashes and they end up flying all over The Dude, and The Dude just stands there motionless before exploding...fucking perfection.

POINT DUME -- DAY

It is a high, wind-swept bluff. Walter and the Dude walk
towards the lip of the bluff. Parked in the background is
one lonely car, Walter's.

Walter is carrying a bright red coffee can with a blue plastic
lid. When they reach the edge the two men stand awkwardly
for a beat. Finally:

WALTER
I'll say a few words.

The Dude clasps his hands in front of him. Walter clears
his throat.

WALTER
Donny was a good bowler, and a good
man. He was. . . He was one of us.
He was a man who loved the outdoors,
and bowling, and as a surfer explored
the beaches of southern California
from Redondo to Calabassos. And he
was an avid bowler. And a good
friend. He died--he died as so many
of his generation, before his time.
In your wisdom you took him, Lord.
As you took so many bright flowering
young men, at Khe San and Lan Doc
and Hill 364. These young men gave
their lives. And Donny too. Donny
who. . . who loved bowling.

Walter clears his throat.

WALTER
And so, Theodore--Donald--Karabotsos,
in accordance with what we think
your dying wishes might well have
been, we commit your mortal remains
to the bosom of.

Walter is peeling the plastic lid off the coffee can.

WALTER
the Pacific Ocean, which you loved
so well.

AS HE SHAKES OUT THE ASHES:

WALTER
Goodnight, sweet prince.

The wind has blown all of the ashes into the Dude, standing
just to the side of and behind Walter. The Dude stands,
frozen. Finished eulogizing, Walter looks back.

WALTER
Shit, I'm sorry Dude.

He starts brushing off the Dude with his hands.

WALTER
Goddamn wind.

Heretofore motionless, the Dude finally explodes, slapping
Walter's hands away.

DUDE
Goddamnit Walter! You fucking
asshole!

WALTER
Dude! Dude, I'm sorry!

The Dude is near tears.

DUDE
You make everything a fucking
travesty!

WALTER
Dude, I'm--it was an accident!

The Dude gives Walter a furious shove.

DUDE
What about that shit about Vietnam!

WALTER
Dude, I'm sorry--

DUDE
What the fuck does Vietnam have to
do with anything! What the fuck
were you talking about?!

Walter for the first time is genuinely distressed, almost
lost.

WALTER
Shit Dude, I'm sorry--

DUDE
You're a fuck, Walter!

He gives Walter a weaker shove. Walter seems dazed, then
wraps his arms around the Dude.

WALTER
Awww, fuck it Dude. Let's go bowling.




Also, the scene in the bowling alley where Jesus Quintana accuses Walter and The Dude of pulling 'bush league psych out' stuff is classic. Based on this scene, I am now convinced that John Turturro could take a dramatic role in a dramatic film playing a total psycho and at the very least get nominated for an academy award for it.

DUDE AND WALTER

Each with a beer at the scoring table.

WALTER
Sure you'll see some tank battles.
But fighting in desert is very
different from fighting in canopy
jungle.

DUDE
Uh-huh.

WALTER
I mean 'Nam was a foot soldier's war
whereas, uh, this thing should be a
fucking cakewalk. I mean I had an
M16, Jacko, not an Abrams fucking
tank. Just me and Charlie, man,
eyeball to eyeball.

DUDE
Yeah.

WALTER
That's fuckin' combat. The man in
the black pyjamas, Dude. Worthy
fuckin' adversary.

DONNY
Who's in pyjamas, Walter?

WALTER
Shut the fuck up, Donny. Not a bunch
of fig-eaters with towels on their
heads tryin' to find reverse on a
Soviet tank. This is not a worthy--

VOICE
HEY!

The Dude and Walter look.

Quintana is bellowing from the lip of the lane, and is
restrained by O'Brien.

QUINTANA
What's this "day of rest" shit, man?!

Walter looks at him innocently.

QUINTANA
What is this bullshit, man? I don't
fucking care! It don't matter to
Jesus! But you're not fooling me!
You might fool the fucks in the league
office, but you don't fool Jesus!
It's bush league psych-out stuff!
Laughable, man! I would've fucked
you in the ass Saturday, I'll fuck
you in the ass next Wednesday instead!

QUINTANA

He makes hip-grinding coital motions as O'Brien leads him
away.

QUINTANA
You got a date Wednesday, man!

Walter, his head cocked, and the Dude, peeking over his
shades, watch him go.

WALTER
He's cracking.

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Old 09-03-2007, 04:14 PM   #219
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You ready to be fucked, ma'?!?!
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Old 09-03-2007, 07:37 PM   #220
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Going back to the Bearded One, I can understand the hate towards WotW because I felt so incredibly frustrated by the ending (I mean, WHY? If he can feed an innocent kid to a shark why not let a feckless one be killed in warfare?) but upon reflection there were some great moments in this below par film.

I loved the way Cruise arrives back at his house after the opening attack in what is viewed as insignificant dust t be scrubbed off, just like how the aliens view us on Earth. I loved the way they were forced out of the car by the crowd of people, everybody thinking only of themselves. I loved the long shot of them weaving between broken down traffic on the freeway beforehand too. And I may be one of the few who thought Tm Robbins character really added something good to the film and appreciated the resolution to that plot strand.

So overall, it may be a sub-par film but Spielberg still has some great moments in it.

Also, Duel is a fantastic debut, wracking the tension up to breaking point and never feeling the need to give the antagonist a back story or superhuman abilities.
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Old 09-03-2007, 11:50 PM   #221
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The best scene of War of the Worlds was when the flaming train just blew across the track. If there was more of that type of stuff instead of a half-assed, horribly paced plot involving just the family, it would've been better.

The military aspect should've been a bigger focal point than the shoddy-ass version in the movie. Especially when the kid has to run to the hill where everyone's... i don't know, dropping dead.

A very disappointing film with too much potential. As I've said before, it would've been a better James Cameron flick than a Spielberg one.
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Old 09-04-2007, 12:15 AM   #222
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i may one of the few who doesn't think spielberg is all that (i'm not trying to entice anything negative, but i like to know what you guys think is so great about him cause i don't get it)
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Old 09-04-2007, 01:46 PM   #223
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so... they're going to make a movie based on Joust now?

http://movies.ign.com/articles/817/817530p1.html

Can I get a WTF?
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Old 09-04-2007, 08:28 PM   #224
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Quote:
Originally posted by elevated_u2_fan
so... they're going to make a movie based on Joust now?

http://movies.ign.com/articles/817/817530p1.html

Can I get a WTF?
WTF?

Would someone just please burn down all of Hollywood? Making films based on video games is bad enough. Making a film based on something as marginally popular and story-less as Joust defies all reason.

Stop them. Stop them now.


Lemon, glad to hear you enjoyed Man Who Wasn't There. I love Billy Bob in the car w/ Scarlett ("No birdy, no!") and the montage of the spinning hubcap morphing into the UFO morphing into the surgeon's metal hat-thingy (forget what they're called). Genius.

Also, namkcuR, that must have been from the Lebowski screenplay, becuase in the actual film during Donny's ash-spreading Walter says "...from La Jolla to Leo Carillo and, up to Pismo." Small difference but the actual words are funnier than what they originally had.
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Old 09-05-2007, 04:02 AM   #225
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Quote:
Originally posted by monkeyskin
And I may be one of the few who thought Tm Robbins character really added something good to the film and appreciated the resolution to that plot strand.
The best thing about the movie, not counting the special effects.

Spielberg
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