Instant karma for REM???

[cmaly]

I have an early interview w/ Peter Buck recorded in 1984 in which he rips U2 for "waving a white flag around..." and last night I watched the documentary "Athens Inside and Out" in which an Athens musician called opening for U2 a "bad experience." It's funny to me how karma has worked its way for this band (who I saw at Red Rocks a couple years back...) Man, I wish they would have waved a white flag... it would have made their standing around far more interesting. Not to offend REM fans (having BEEN one myself) but it's interesting to see the two directions these bands have taken.

[U2DMfan]

and the fact that Peter Buck and Bono are great friends.

people say stupid stuff when they are young.

[Zoomerang96]

Originally posted by cmaly
I have an early interview w/ Peter Buck recorded in 1984 in which he rips U2 for "waving a white flag around..." and last night I watched the documentary "Athens Inside and Out" in which an Athens musician called opening for U2 a "bad experience." It's funny to me how karma has worked its way for this band (who I saw at Red Rocks a couple years back...) Man, I wish they would have waved a white flag... it would have made their standing around far more interesting. Not to offend REM fans (having BEEN one myself) but it's interesting to see the two directions these bands have taken.

yeah, it's amazing how bono can't even come close to penning lyrics as good as 'i wanted to be wrong' anymore.

odd, usually lyricists get better with age...

[Yahweh]

Many other people have said bad things about U2 and ended up being friends later on....Micheal Hutchence being a good example of that...he used to hate Bonos guts.

[Zoomerang96]

You know where I come from
You know what I feel
You're Yul Brenner Westworld
Reporting from the field.
I threw it into reverse,
Made a motion to repeal.
You kicked my legs from under me,
And tried to take the wheel.

I told you I wanted to be wrong,
But everyone is humming a song
That I don't understand.

Now I know that the sun has shined on my side of the street.
The basket of America, the weevils and the wheat.
The milk and honeyed congregation, scrubbed and apple-cheeked
Salute Apollo 13 from the rattle jewelry seats.

Mythology's seductive and it turned a trick on me
That I have just begun to understand.

I told you I wanted to be wrong,
But everyone is humming a song
That I don't understand.

The rodeo is staged, gold circle goat-ropers and clowns.
A rumble in the third act, tie 'em up and burn 'em down.
We're armed to the teeth, born a little breech;
Blue-plate special analysts, cells and SUV's

We can't approach the Allies 'cause they seem a little peeved
And speak a language we don't understand.

I told you I wanted to be wrong
But everyone is humming a song
That I don't understand.

(Prop up The Omega Man, we're primed for victory,
God gave us the upper hand, there's honor among thieves.
Temper it with arrogance, a dash of sad conceit.
The top's down on the T-Bird, we're the children of the free)

Storm into the boardroom of the conquering elite.
Did you recognize the madman who is shouting in the streets?
Destroy the things that I don't understand
Destroy the things that I don't understand.

[Zoomerang96]

rem isn't interested in being the "biggest band in the world" unlike u2.

they're committed to making great music, and don't give a rats ass what critics or fans have to say. they have a spine, and they're still amazing.

[Yahweh]

If the last REM album is "amazing" for REM (which it isnt), then they should retire.

Reveal was a good album but the last album didnt have anything as far as im concerned.

REM never really had the option of being the biggest band in the world either outside of the early 90s which at its high point was only still dragging on the heals of Achtung Baby and ZooTV.

It is never a proper answer to say somebody doesnt want to be the biggest band in the world when really they never had the option and very few people ever get to that point of having the option to say yes we want to be the biggest band in the world.

[U2DMfan]

well, I love REM and U2, but the biggest difference between them both is that U2 dropped the pretentious attitude years ago, and most of their fans followed suit. I never took REM as overly pretentious, but their fans are. Well, the murmurs forum-type.

Pretending to hold on to some indie-idealism.
They all make money for big corporations, U2, REM, Modest Mouse, Interpol, all of them. Some bands fans just pretend like they don't.

[Zoomerang96]

you completely missed the point.

even still, i agree with what you said for the most part.

but their focus has always been on making great music...not winning popularity contests.

[U2DMfan]

Originally posted by Zoomerang96
[B
but their focus has always been on making great music...not winning popularity contests. [/B]

Sadly, I agree.

But lets not pretend REM don't care to please their fans. They just don't care to win over the TRL crowd. I don't think U2 do either, but that's what they are shooting for.

I think U2 thinks that there are more 'rock' fans in America than there are. The top 40 is for crap, and U2 wants to compete along side of those. It's sort of silly, it's like being a professional football team. You can't compete against the others unless you ARE one.

I thought U2 figured this out in the 90's, I guess they didn't.

[financeguy]

Originally posted by cmaly
I have an early interview w/ Peter Buck recorded in 1984 in which he rips U2 for "waving a white flag around..." and last night I watched the documentary "Athens Inside and Out" in which an Athens musician called opening for U2 a "bad experience." It's funny to me how karma has worked its way for this band (who I saw at Red Rocks a couple years back...) Man, I wish they would have waved a white flag... it would have made their standing around far more interesting. Not to offend REM fans (having BEEN one myself) but it's interesting to see the two directions these bands have taken.

There was a thing in the '80's amongst bands/musicians perceived as "alternative" or trendy to slag off bands like U2, Queen or Simple Minds that were perceived to be too mainstream or too stadium rock-oriented. It's funny that most of the slaggers off of U2 have since come around.

I remember reading various negative quotes from people like Ian McCullough of Echo and the Bunnymen, for example, but I checked out an Echo and the Bunnymen fan forum recently and it was amazing how many people had good things to say about U2 on there!

[financeguy]

Originally posted by U2DMfan
I never took REM as overly pretentious, but their fans are. Well, the murmurs forum-type.

Talking of pretentious I think Radiohead fans are a lot worse than REM fans!

[Sleep Over Jack]

Originally posted by financeguy


Talking of pretentious I think Radiohead fans are a lot worse than REM fans!

Ugh, tell me about it.



Awful.


As for REM, I'm a huge fan, and their back catalogue is one of the best of any band ever, but these days, they're aimless as fuck and have fallen into the trap of old bands of over-producing their music to hide the fact that the songs aren't that good. U2 still have the stuff I think, lots of fantastic songs on 'Bomb, whereas REM have only had a few songs worthy of their past on the last three albums, IMO

[U2DMfan]

Originally posted by financeguy


Talking of pretentious I think Radiohead fans are a lot worse than REM fans!

It's a sickness really.

I mean, I wouldnt say Radiohead wants to be the biggest band in the world, but I would say that their music comes from the same conviction that U2's does.

So what is the difference? Well it's that pretentious idealism, it comes from the fans, mostly, but not always.

It's the pretending that (insert band name here) have more integrity because they don't try to sell as many records as (insert other band here).

There is an argument there, but they never make the right one.

The argument is changing the music to sell more records to make more MONEY. Therefore it's COMPROMISING the music. CHanging your music for any other reason is no different than ANY other reason. It's at the descretion of the musician. So U2 making a soul rrecord with ATYCLB is no different than Radiohead making Kid A. It;s changing the artistic direction, and the motives are just THAT.

U2 need no more money or fame, they have as much as anyone in today's music scene. So why would they change their music?

Artistic direction? WHat are the motives, those are the questions to be asked. I think, after Pop, U2 wanted to prove it could write Beatles-type songs, not to make more money, but to say "yeah we are that good". So there is no compromising of the artistic direction, it's just that when one sells more than the other, it becomes overexposed and the pretentious little indie crowd gets all 'holier=than=thou'.

I think it's funny and it's somehting to be expected from 15-20 year olds, but not adults.

[financeguy]

Originally posted by U2DMfan


I think, after Pop, U2 wanted to prove it could write Beatles-type songs, not to make more money, but to say "yeah we are that good".

Yeah, I'd agree fully with that. But funnily enough I think one of the most Beatles-ish sounding things they ever did was The Sweetest Thing - and that was originally recorded years ago, so I reckon they could always do Beatles type songs when they wanted.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not slagging the Beatles, without the Beatles there would never have been U2!

[U2dork]

Originally posted by cmaly
I have an early interview w/ Peter Buck recorded in 1984 in which he rips U2 for "waving a white flag around..." and last night I watched the documentary "Athens Inside and Out" in which an Athens musician called opening for U2 a "bad experience." It's funny to me how karma has worked its way for this band (who I saw at Red Rocks a couple years back...) Man, I wish they would have waved a white flag... it would have made their standing around far more interesting. Not to offend REM fans (having BEEN one myself) but it's interesting to see the two directions these bands have taken.

The musician who made that quote is Michael Lachowski who is in Pylon, a band that is somewhat legendary here in Athens. I see him often around town. I think he owns a clothing store and a bar***.
When I saw that documentary, and he mentioned opening for U2, my jaw dropped. I had never realized that the man who's served me beer for all these years has shared company with my favorite band of all time. That documentary made me kinda nostalgic for the old days. Athens is not the same town anymore.
Anyway, I agree with those who have said that it's not about the popularity. It's about making the music they want to make on their own terms. Gotta respect them for that.


***EDIT: I just checked and he doesn't actually own the bar but he does work there.

[u2popmofo]

Originally posted by Sleep Over Jack


As for REM, I'm a huge fan, and their back catalogue is one of the best of any band ever, but these days, they're aimless as fuck and have fallen into the trap of old bands of over-producing their music to hide the fact that the songs aren't that good.

Couldnt have put it better myself. It's sad, really.

[U2dork]

just for the heck of it, I'll post a snippet of an interview of Pylon done in '98

CURTIS: We did a few tours, we played with U2 and Public Image Limited and Talking Heads. Of all the bands to open up for, U2 were probably the hardest. It was like opening for Jesus Christ. Their fans were the singularly most rabid rock and roll fans I've ever seen. There were girls in TEARS out in the crowd. It was like opening for the Beatles. It would have been a fantasic learning experience (ED NOTE: Pylon didn't stay on for the whole tour) and probably gotten us some exposure. At the same time, you would probably be boo'd off the stage four nights out of five doing that (opening for them).

We were actually starting to get out there and be a band. I think that it was one of these things that none of really intended to be in a BAND. It was kind of something that we did while we were in college to entertain ourselves. We never really took it seriously, the whole being-in-a-band business. It started looking too serious for us and we all just decided to bag it. (laughs)

MICHAEL: When I found out about the U2 tour, we were all pissed off and no one wanted to do it. I told him (the booking agent) that and he said 'then what the fuck are you doing? why are you in a band? what are you trying to do?' Being asked those things just proved that we couldn't go on forever saying 'we're just doing this 'cause we wanna have fun.' There were just too many decisions to make and you can't make them all with that kind of statement of purpose. Having those kinds of conversations were driving us crazy. That wasn't the kind of thing we wanted to do. I don't think anyone at the time could care less if that was our living.

Here's a link:
http://www.furious.com/perfect/pylon.html
the quote is from part 2 of the interview...

[MrBrau1]

REM haven't been the same since Bill Berry left. Their music has turned to mush.

[allbecauseofu2]

rem has made a weird transition from cult band to huge band back to cult band. if you go to see thier shows people are realy to see pre 1998 songs. thier still up thier with the greatest alterative bands ever. could be a matter of just no recent song connected with top 40 radio. i would like to hear something off the latest album through.