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Old 03-05-2005, 05:15 PM   #31
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Originally posted by greenlight7-11
I have to agree with what you guys are saying about the post-Bill Berry material. They just aren't R.E.M. anymore. I quite enjoyed Up, but I thought Reveal really sucked and Around The Sun was not a huge improvment. But they're still my favorite band because I enjoy their back catalog (from NAIHF on back) more than anyone else's catalog. And they're still a rockin' live band.
Yeah I agree, the rot started with Up. I actually prefer Reveal to Up but neither of them are great. I didn't even bother getting the new one, heard too many bad reports.
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Old 03-05-2005, 07:00 PM   #32
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Originally posted by greenlight7-11

So I guess you felt safe to assume that there are no Murmurs posters on Interference? I happen to be one. Way to make a sweeping generalization there.
Don't worry greenlight7-11, there are plenty of pretentious, obnoxious U2 fans about too. Every band has them.
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Old 03-05-2005, 07:06 PM   #33
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Don't worry greenlight7-11, there are plenty of pretentious, obnoxious U2 fans about too. Every band has them.
I'm not sure if there are that many pretentious U2 fans. There are U2 fans who appear somewhat narrow in their musical tastes, i.e., U2 and nothing else.

At times I'd almost prefer if there were more
rather than fewer pretentious, arty U2 fans - e.g. people who understand surrealism and Dadaism and the influence these art movements had on some U2 albums. Although more so in respect of U2's "sister" band the Virgin Prunes.
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Old 03-05-2005, 07:25 PM   #34
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Originally posted by financeguy


I'm not sure if there are that many pretentious U2 fans. There are U2 fans who appear somewhat narrow in their musical tastes, i.e., U2 and nothing else.

At times I'd almost prefer if there were more
rather than fewer pretentious, arty U2 fans - e.g. people who understand surrealism and Dadaism and the influence these art movements had on some U2 albums. Although more so in respect of U2's "sister" band the Virgin Prunes.
I was using the following definitions of pretentious:

1) making usually unjustified or excessive claims
2) expressive of affective, unwarranted, or exaggerated importance, worth, or stature

There are U2 fans that certainly fit these definitions.

Also pretension doesn't mean you understand art influences -- more that you try to make everyone else think you do.
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Old 03-05-2005, 07:30 PM   #35
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Originally posted by indra


I was using the following definitions of pretentious:

1) making usually unjustified or excessive claims
2) expressive of affective, unwarranted, or exaggerated importance, worth, or stature
Sure, I think in my experience most of those type of fans are often the very young ones that maybe haven't had the chance to experience other types of music and hence make exaggerated or excessive claims on behalf of U2.
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Old 03-05-2005, 07:35 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by greenlight7-11

So I guess you felt safe to assume that there are no Murmurs posters on Interference? I happen to be one. Way to make a sweeping generalization there.
Just exactly what was said was exactly what I meant. It's tantamount to me NOT typing "people who post at Murmurs are pretentious assholes" it's the understood part of the statement, hence the use of the phrase "murmurs-type". If taken in context, there should be no direct generalization, just a statement, it's not hard to figure out.

Am I talking about myself? I post over there, common sense, here.
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Old 03-05-2005, 09:56 PM   #37
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Originally posted by financeguy


Sure, I think in my experience most of those type of fans are often the very young ones that maybe haven't had the chance to experience other types of music and hence make exaggerated or excessive claims on behalf of U2.
Very true. I'm starting to feel very old...
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Old 03-06-2005, 12:29 AM   #38
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Originally posted by U2DMfan


Just exactly what was said was exactly what I meant. It's tantamount to me NOT typing "people who post at Murmurs are pretentious assholes" it's the understood part of the statement, hence the use of the phrase "murmurs-type". If taken in context, there should be no direct generalization, just a statement, it's not hard to figure out.

Am I talking about myself? I post over there, common sense, here.
My apologies. I obviously didn't automatically assume that you were also a Murmurs poster, given that the way you talked about Murmurs folks made it seem like you weren't too keen on that site. I was thinking maybe you had browsed the site and decided you didn't like it and didn't join.
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Old 03-06-2005, 01:26 AM   #39
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Around the Sun is flawed. Yet I think it becomes brilliant after A Boy in the Well. You get a taste of everything.

I am a huge fan of Worst Joke Ever and High Speed Train, even if Stipey sounds as if he's lethargic and can't be bothered anymore.

Around the Sun (song) is a great album closer and Ascent of Man is reminiscint of one of my favourites Animal.

Aftermath, Electron Blue, Leaving New York, Wanderlust and Outsiders are fine too.

I wanted to be wrong and make it all okay are average, and personally I find Final Straw quite awful.
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Old 03-06-2005, 11:42 AM   #40
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I didn't DISLIKE what I heard on Around the Sun, but very few songs jumped out at me.

The difference is this: while people on Intereference have been divided on HTDAAB, a majority of U2 fans seem to like it. There is much discussion over whether it is one of their best albums. It's not an extravagant claim to mention it in the same breath as JT or AB, even if you think the older two albums are clearly superior.

I can't imagine any discussion like that on R.E.M. boards right now about Around the Sun. What percentage of R.E.M. fans are actually pleased with it (save the sycophants who will lap up anything)? How many mention it as being among their best efforts? As much as I dislike Green (which couldn't sound any more like a major label debut sellout album than it actually does), I would certainly listen to it before popping in the new album or Reveal. I'd have to go back to Reckoning or Fables to find something comparably weak, and at least Reckoning has youthful energy, Fables some of Stipe's best writing (the album just runs out of steam in the second half).

Ultimately, R.E.M. just sounds sadly irrelevant. Not obscure or alternative or artsy, just unimportant. And it's the worst thing I can imagine happening to this band, after all they've done. They sound like their hearts aren't in it.


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Old 03-06-2005, 12:19 PM   #41
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Originally posted by indra


Don't worry greenlight7-11, there are plenty of pretentious, obnoxious U2 fans about too. Every band has them.

seriously.

someone should introduce you to some internet-dropkick murphys "fans". half of them are "OMG!!! ILUV DKMS!!!!!!! who do u think is beter? mike mccoolgan or al bar???" and the other half are will say "dkm fucking suck, they've sucked since 'do or die' but everything else they've put out has been really gay". sure there are people in the middle of that mess...but about 90% of the ones i've seen online AND in real life fall into one of these categories.





as for REM, i guess i've never been a big enough fan to give a shit about what direction they might have headed in. it's interesting, if you don't take it too personally when a band puts out an album that isn't as good as you think it should be, then it doesn't bother you as much. i had a great time seeing them live last october.

i agree that around the sun is quote boring (although i really like "i wanted to be wrong", "leaving ny" and "wanderlust", but that's about it). i hate reveal.

i like songs from pretty much all their albums. i can't come up with any REM album other than murmer that i love from beginning to end, but does that mean i think they should have quit after that? of course not, that would be ridiculous (not to mention i think murmer came out before i was born, so chances are i would never have heard it had they fallen off the face of the earth after that).
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Old 03-09-2005, 11:56 AM   #42
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I liked REM better when I couldn't understand what the F they were saying.
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Old 03-11-2005, 06:00 PM   #43
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I had been a huge fan...buying all of their albums and seeing them live a few times but I totally agree...

..somehow Bill Berry seems to have been the heart and soul of the band. The rest now come across as being pretentious and Peter Buck's plane escapade didn't help in that regard. Michael Stipe seems to have become too interested in the Hollywood crowd.

And then they had that strange episode where one of their managers left in a bit of controversy...what was that all about?

Altogether, it's been a pretty quick fade.

I keep thinking that Bill Berry will at least come back to the studio but don't expect that to ever happen.

I've always wondered if something happened between Berry and the rest of the band. You would have thought if they were friends that they would have at least talked him into recording with them.
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Old 03-11-2005, 10:19 PM   #44
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God damn! He was just the drummer! Talk about putting someone on a pedestal.
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Old 03-12-2005, 01:30 AM   #45
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Yes, he was just the drummer but I think, much like someone else suggested, that he helped them strike a balance between their good ideas and wonky ideas. Don't forget that he also wrote some songs while he was a member (like Perfect Circle, for instance).

The deal with Jefferson Holt (former manager) being sacked was said to have something to do with sexual harassment of someone at R.E.M.'s offices. But because of legal reasons, no one has ever been able to come out and state the real reason for sure.

Bill wanted to leave the band of his own accord because he found that his priorities had shifted. His brush with death in 1995 made him re-examine his life and he realized that rock band life wasn't what he wanted anymore. All along, he had somewhat reluctantly accepted the role of being in a rock band in the way that he hated doing interviews and photo shoots and was always the first one to leave at the end of rehearsals or recording sessions.
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