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Old 03-05-2006, 11:52 PM   #31
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Originally posted by U2@NYC


Box office is down again.

Crash won best movie.

Reese Witherspoon won best actress.

Three sad reasons.

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Old 03-05-2006, 11:53 PM   #32
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Originally posted by PlaTheGreat


I'm done celebrating Crash. Now I'm just celebrating the fact that Crash winning Best Picture is actually making you this riled up.

Keep going!
Happy to keep you entertained.

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Old 03-05-2006, 11:56 PM   #33
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Originally posted by If you shout...
I almost threw up when the sexually abused woman is narratively forced to submit to the redemptive authority of her attacker. Disgusting.
That's exactly how I felt when I saw that scene.

I thought the film was well-done for the most part, but that one scene made me so mad it nearly ruined it for me.

I didn't realize how much I was rooting for Brokeback Mountain until they announced Crash as the winner.
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Old 03-05-2006, 11:59 PM   #34
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I really liked this film. While it was only stronger than one of the other nominees (the clumsy Munich ), it had a lot to say about a LOT of topics. I especially liked the American Grafitti sort of interconnectedness that worked so well.
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Old 03-06-2006, 12:11 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2@NYC


Box office is down again.
Has nothing to do with this.
Quote:
Originally posted by U2@NYC

Crash won best movie.
Great movie. Exagerated? In what sense, everything in that movie still happens today, I'm not sure how that's exagerating.

Quote:
Originally posted by U2@NYC

Reese Witherspoon won best actress.
I've never liked her and thought she did an amazing job, she deserved it.
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Old 03-06-2006, 12:22 AM   #36
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Originally posted by Bono's shades


That's exactly how I felt when I saw that scene.
That is becaue you can and, more importantly, DID think. It's something so many people fail to do on any serious level of critical engagement.

Things got a little trashy 'round these parts when peeps busted up in laughin' at people and such, trying to stir shit up, but I think something important came out of the lunacy.

As a part of the academic world, I mostly come into contact only with people who have years of study under their belts. Like Melon, I myself have six years of critical theory (cinema focus) under my belt, and most of the people I know are in a basically equivalent situation.

I have noticed about this film that...

A) It is hated most vitriolically by members of the academy. Of the 100 or so people--students and faculty--who surround me, these days, ZERO of them liked this film. 100 or so hated it like I hate "A Man and a Woman." That's saying something.

B) Most all of the so-called "regular" people I know loved the film or were at least casually indifferent towards it. A very small number of people in this "group" hated the film as powerfully as myself, but usually for less theory- or representation-based reasons as myself.

Of course, none of this is empirical--I haven't exactly committed myself to a systematic audience analysis or anything like that, and I don't plan to in the future. Even so, I do find it very interesting that all the people working to advance the language of cinema hate the movie (again--all those whom I know, at least), whereas so many of the people who actually EMPOWER the cinema and make it relevant (the lay viewer) seem to enjoy the film.

I find this legitimately fascinating, and as I alluded to in my first post (which says most all of what I have to say about this so-called film), I find myself torn between the film-as-text and the reception/audience/film-as-text. I just can't stop turning it over in my head--does an irresponsible film which is read by the audience in a constructive and progressive way any worse or better than a progressive film seen by audiences as, perhaps, pretentious and worthless...?

So interesting, I tell you. And, again--thanks for paying attention, Bono's shades!
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Old 03-06-2006, 12:33 AM   #37
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On a side note, it actually didn't do too well with the critics, especially when compared to the other nominees and a lot of films that were snubbed from a nom.

www.metacritic.com
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Old 03-06-2006, 01:00 AM   #38
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I really cannot the believe the near hatred felt for this film. I'm amazed at some of the comments. I understand what your criticisms are, and I respect them; This is not meant as an attack on your thoughts. But have we watched the same film?

Cliched? Yes.. but my god, this is the world we live in. If you can't see this sort of stereotyping around you, then please tell me where you are, because I want to live there.

Everybody holds stereotypical beliefs. Everyone. Some hide them better than others; some disregard them, out of respect and in understanding what they represent; and others, racists, act on them. Sadly, there are more of this type than any of us would care to admit, or think about.

It seems to me that some people here believe that if a film shows racism, then it inherently is racist. But Haggis is telling a story. A real, believable story. Listen to the dialogue. It's natural, unforced. These are people who exist in this world. One poster stated that Crash "worked systematically (intentionally or not) to re-validate that very same racism." How so? By depicting it? So you're saying that this somehow sanctions racism. You also say a "film so racially subversive (in a bad way) is dangerous, because so-called average viewers obviously aren't recognizing the tripe they're being fed." Are you saying that this film will make racists out of people? I think you're underestimating the intelligence of the average viewer. I might be wrong, but I think that those who use the depicted stereotypes to fuel their own racial beliefs have already formed their opinions.

In his original view, Roger Ebert made a subtle point. He said "Not many films have the possibility of making their audiences better people." For the critics here, ask yourself this: don't you think that the majority of those who come from watching this film will think in some way about how they see others? Even if for just a minute... is this not an accomplishment worthy of honour? Heaven forbid we're forced to face our own ignorance!

Is everything too much of a coincidence? Too far-fetched? Maybe. But isn't that the point? I think Haggis is suggesting something here. As fate would have it, these people are forced to witness their own pettiness. So perhaps Haggis is saying there's something greater involved. i.e. Karma; God (Grace). This is only my interpretation. Anybody agree with me?

Thankfully, and this has been said already in the original post, what this film shows is that - in the end - people are good. How fanastic is this? Really! I don't know... I feel this is more important than most give credit for. We're hateful, stupid, ignorant animals, but by the grace of god there's hope for us.
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Old 03-06-2006, 01:09 AM   #39
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Originally posted by Dorian Gray

It seems to me that some people here believe that if a film shows racism, then it inherently is racist. But Haggis is telling a story. A real, believable story. Listen to the dialogue. It's natural, unforced. These are people who exist in this world.
This comment also interests me very much, and it's not just you whom I hear saying it--it seems to come up a lot when people are talking about Crash.

This is exactly what I was talking about with the intentional fallacy, though. Probably unconsciously, you're trying to have your cake and eat it to. Allow me to explain...

During an acceptance speech, Haggis himself mentioned how the film was meant not to be used as a mirror held up to society (a literary metaphor long, long ago dispelled...remember that Realism/Naturalism died as artistic movements around the dawn of the 20th Century), but as a hammer. Or something like that, you know? I'm pretty sure he used the hammer as his metaphor.

I'm straying from my point, though. Sorry. That point is that you're in part lauding the film for showing the world as it really is, saying that Haggis is trying to show us as we really are. He specifically said, though, that this is/was not the "aim" of the film. This is why this type of criticism does not work. The author-function exists, to be sure, but as was written some time ago (by Foucault...? I think it was Foucault...), "The author is dead."

You ask good questions in the rest of your post in quoting me, but I'll be honest and say that I both already answered most and anticipated some of them in previous points (VERY briefly, yes...sorry) and that it's damned late and I have a long day ahead of me. In closing, peace out.
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Old 03-06-2006, 01:11 AM   #40
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Originally posted by melon

Oh well...I spent Oscar night watching "'F' for Fake" (1976), Orson Welles' eccentric final film. What a fantastic movie.
Kudos to you. Easily among my all-time favorites from the Welles canon. I love this film more than I can begin to say. Kudos, I tell you!!!
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Old 03-06-2006, 01:14 AM   #41
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Thank you If you shout... for your very unelitist point of view.
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Old 03-06-2006, 01:15 AM   #42
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Originally posted by U2@NYC


Which ended up in Reese Witherspoon winning best actress, after her amazing performances in Legally Blonde and Cruel Intentions...

her amazing performances were in

election

and the off-beat dark comedy

freeway
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Old 03-06-2006, 01:23 AM   #43
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Thank you If you shout... for your very unelitist point of view.
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Old 03-06-2006, 01:28 AM   #44
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Originally posted by If you shout...


This comment also interests me very much, and it's not just you whom I hear saying it--it seems to come up a lot when people are talking about Crash.

This is exactly what I was talking about with the intentional fallacy, though. Probably unconsciously, you're trying to have your cake and eat it to. Allow me to explain...

During an acceptance speech, Haggis himself mentioned how the film was meant not to be used as a mirror held up to society (a literary metaphor long, long ago dispelled...remember that Realism/Naturalism died as artistic movements around the dawn of the 20th Century), but as a hammer. Or something like that, you know? I'm pretty sure he used the hammer as his metaphor.

I'm straying from my point, though. Sorry. That point is that you're in part lauding the film for showing the world as it really is, saying that Haggis is trying to show us as we really are. He specifically said, though, that this is/was not the "aim" of the film. This is why this type of criticism does not work. The author-function exists, to be sure, but as was written some time ago (by Foucault...? I think it was Foucault...), "The author is dead."

You ask good questions in the rest of your post in quoting me, but I'll be honest and say that I both already answered most and anticipated some of them in previous points (VERY briefly, yes...sorry) and that it's damned late and I have a long day ahead of me. In closing, peace out.
Thanks for your quick reply. I need to hit the sack too. I guess what Im trying to say is that I see parallels based on my own experiences growing up in rural Canada. These are people I've talked with. These are thoughts we've all felt.

So, in part, it is refelctive of society. Maybe that wasn't Haggis intention, but it's what I take from it.

I'm sorry.. I'm not versed in the academic realm for filmmaking. Any arguement I'd make regarding the author-function would be bullshit. I'm reacting as a member of the audience. I was moved by this story. Ultimately art is communication, right? It's made for the self and others. We draw from it what we will.
If you do get the time, please do elaborate on how the film is "irresponsible" in its telling. I want to understand you here.
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Old 03-06-2006, 01:56 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
[B]

I have six years of collegiate-level media education, including film studies, and I'm an aspiring screenwriter/director/editor (i.e., film auteur) myself.

In other words, I have a good idea of what's good, what's bad, and what's just plain mediocre.
I'm 23 and have watched an insane amount of movies from every decade that films have been made.

In other words, I have a good idea what's good, what's bad, and what's just plain mediocre.


Edit: Oh, and as an evil, white, American conservative, I thought Brokeback Mountain should have won both director and best movie honors. I thought it certainly was the best movie out of the 5 in the running in terms of seeming to be most believable, even though BM and Crash were the only two "fiction" movies.

But, I always like movies that aren't based on specific events better than movies like "Munich."
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