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Old 08-05-2003, 08:15 PM   #31
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my friend's vows meant she is to be the subservant to her husband and obey and answer to him, where he is not to obey and answer to her. according to her "a woman's place is in the home and to be the care taker, the mother and to raise a nice quiet family." while her husband has stated "kids are to be seen and not heard."

to each their own and if it makes you happy then so be it, all i know is that there would be no way in hell i would marry a man like that.
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Old 08-05-2003, 11:26 PM   #32
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I've heard the "responsibility" excuse so much that I am afraid I just don't buy it. It's a nice way of saying that in a marriage situation a woman is one step below the man. That she's not adult enough to be responsible before a Holy God for herself. That quite frankly is insulting to me as a human being.
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Old 08-06-2003, 01:28 AM   #33
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wtf?

Like, what was she thinking? And what is with that cop out plea? Yeah, take his drivers license too, putz. Isn't there someone around that can teach her how to use a pump so that she doesn't have to worry about THE AIR BAG SQUASHING THE INFANT WHILE SHE DRIVES? What a moronic thing to do to put your child at risk in a state where half of the state drives down the yellow line in the center like they own the road to keep from taking out more than a quarterpanel with a deer and shuts their headlamps out at intersections to see if someone is coming so they don't have to stop. Yeah, what did you do with that few minutes you would have saved pulling over?

No chillins for me...20 I thought was too young...30 too busy..and now looking at 40..::it seems like just yesterday. I guess I should be happy that I can borrow Marc's son once in a while and make him eat green things..lol
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Old 08-06-2003, 11:07 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by sulawesigirl4
I've heard the "responsibility" excuse so much that I am afraid I just don't buy it. It's a nice way of saying that in a marriage situation a woman is one step below the man. That she's not adult enough to be responsible before a Holy God for herself. That quite frankly is insulting to me as a human being.
Sorry, it sounds like you've read too much negative into the passages from Scripture. Every person is responsible for a Holy God.
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Old 08-06-2003, 11:20 AM   #35
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Sorry, it sounds like you've read too much negative into the passages from Scripture. Every person is responsible for a Holy God.
I disagree actually. I've read the Scriptures in question and in my view, if interpreted in the light of the cultural practices of the time in which they are written, they're not negative. What I find negative is the commonly accepted interpretations within the brand of Christianity that I have been a part of for so long.

I'm sorry if I come across as militant on this issue, but to be quite honest, it has been the most emotionally scarring thing that has been a part of my spiritual journey. And the deal-breaker that almost made me leave my faith entirely. I've done a lot of studying and praying and soul-searching about gender issues within Christianity. So yeah, I guess I have strong feelings on the subject. I don't mean to be rude to you personally though.
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Old 08-06-2003, 01:40 PM   #36
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Sorry to hear that and understand your points. Scripture is powerful. Misapplication of Scripture quite damaging.

Peace
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Old 08-07-2003, 12:33 AM   #37
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Sula and mvDress

I understand where you are coming from.

One size does not fit all.

I have two younger sisters who are in marriages where the husband is the head of the family. They are in churches and communities where that is the norm. They each have 4 children. I have respect for both of my brothers-in-law. They are good husbands and wonderful fathers. Yes, they are conservative. My sisters do have their own opinions.

It is the life they chose and they are happy. My nieces and nephews are thriving, also. On holidays I give them critical thinking lessons.
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Old 08-08-2003, 12:29 PM   #38
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for Sula.

Here's an update on this story in case anyone's interested. She wasn't given the maximum charge. They represented themselves in court and the husband stated
Quote:
"''We are people who do not shirk from facing the consequences of our actions. I pray that this court respects my faith,'' Donkers said in closing arguments. "
Respect your faith- so someone does something that can potentially harm another person and it's excused b/c they can chalk it up to faith?


Quote:
"''She placed that infant between herself and the steering wheel, between herself and the air bag,'' Scahill said.

Donkers said Thursday that for a short time she took both hands off the wheel to move the 7-month-old girl while the car drove in cruise control at 65 mph.

''I don't believe there was any form of recklessness,'' she said. "
I hope they make sure this child has a secure place to live.

Entire Article- Boston Globe
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Old 08-08-2003, 01:24 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by MissVelvetDress_75
my friend's vows meant she is to be the subservant to her husband and obey and answer to him, where he is not to obey and answer to her. according to her "a woman's place is in the home and to be the care taker, the mother and to raise a nice quiet family." while her husband has stated "kids are to be seen and not heard."

to each their own and if it makes you happy then so be it, all i know is that there would be no way in hell i would marry a man like that.
I attended a wedding like that. There was even a period before the vows where the father came up and symbolically handed over the religious and spiritual responsibility of the bride from himself to the groom. He then proceeded to give the groom a stern lecture about being the bride's "spiritual counselor." The groom was bawling and snivelling by the end of it. It was awful and the audience just squirmed and squirmed.

And as for this couple in the article:
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Old 08-08-2003, 01:26 PM   #40
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Originally posted by oliveu2cm
Respect your faith- so someone does something that can potentially harm another person and it's excused b/c they can chalk it up to faith?
Hmmm. I think the husband was asking for the opposite. They expected consequences for the potential harm. He took it a step further and asked that he be punished for the potential harm. Faith was not being used as an excuse for the potential harm.
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Old 08-08-2003, 02:02 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Hmmm. I think the husband was asking for the opposite. They expected consequences for the potential harm. He took it a step further and asked that he be punished for the potential harm. Faith was not being used as an excuse for the potential harm.
Ah, gotchya. Thanks for clearing that up lol!

(lol although i think that may make it even weirder haha)
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Old 08-08-2003, 02:34 PM   #42
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Totally off-topic, but sorta related, I'm listening to a show that is produced here at MPR and deals with issues of spirituality and culture. I had remembered hearing a blip about how last week's topic was feminism, marriage and religion. So I'm listening to it via the web now. Just thought that if any of you (olive ) were interested and had an hour to spend, you might check it out. link here
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Old 08-08-2003, 02:36 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
Sula and mvDress

On holidays I give them critical thinking lessons.
Secretly we pass out ear-plugs to one another.
We smile and nod alot as Deep pontificates..When he finishes we all breath a gentle sigh of relief..

Db3
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Old 08-08-2003, 02:42 PM   #44
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heartland girl, that wedding sounds like my friend's. however her father did not do that. actually, she converted from Roman Catholic to Southern Baptist. and it created quite a problem in her family, since she comes from a strong irish catholic family. i was caught in the middle of some really bad arguments between her grandparents, her mother and my friend.

at the reception, friends of ours kept coming up to me and asking me what was the deal with the vows and ceremony. i had no comment, especially since the church they belong to was not mine so i really had no room or place to make any comment. all i know is that there were a lot of and faces in attendance that afternoon.
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