i bought two albums yesterday, and i dont like them. you might. - Page 3 - U2 Feedback

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Old 09-16-2002, 03:39 AM   #31
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What parts of my post were unclear? Is it really that hard to understand that someone can like Coldplay without thinking that they're the second coming?

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Old 09-16-2002, 04:00 AM   #32
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bear, make a record store sticker, bang it on the front and wrap it up for someone as a bday present.
that or shove it under the door as a door stop.

im loving papua new guinea at the mo. so the album is not as good, no?

ali, chris isaak's last album was
but im still going to see him live in november! just got tix
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Old 09-16-2002, 09:35 AM   #33
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Zoomerang mate, if you aint heard Coldplay live, u are definately missing a 'wide-mile-imagination'!
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Old 09-16-2002, 01:21 PM   #34
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Re: Coldplay overrated??

(I've added extra whitespace for readability.)

Quote:
Originally posted by Matthew_Page2000
AROBTTH is better. The songs are more finely crafted--it's not just atmosphere this time.
But the Joshua Tree? Achtung Baby? The best album since 1997?
In My Place is a beautiful song but it's not exactly the next With Or Without You. WOWY, Streets, Still Haven't Found...they're classics because they meet a number of criteria.

First, they're superlative examples of songwriting. I'll take others at their word that AROBTTH is as well. I don't really agree but that's subjective I guess.

Second the songs on Joshua Tree are incredibly flexible. They can be interpreted in a number of different ways. Is WOWY about Jesus or a woman? Spiritual doubt and yearning or sexual? The song works perfectly well either way. Is Still Haven't Found just a gospel song? What kind of a gospel song revels in doubt anyway? What the heck is Streets "about?" Africa? God? Ali?
Are Coldplay songs that flexible? I would argue no.

Third, Joshua Tree had a unique and original sound. WOWY is a bolero I guess but with a bizarre guitar sound made by a newly invented guitar--the Infinite. There was nothing like it on the radio. The same can be said of Streets. That song is all over the place--one of the most inventive rock songs this side of Bohemian Rhapsody.
Ever heard a Coldplay song that startled you with its originality? I haven't. Ever heard a Coldplay song without thinking of another band or artist? I haven't.
You make three cases against A Rush of Blood:

1. A lack of "superlative songwriting," a point which you admit is subjective and not worth arguing over.

2. A lack of flexible meanings within the song.

3. A lack of unique, original sound.

Let's limit ourselves to #2 and #3. I'll handle them in reverse order:


3. Sonic originality. First, Joshua Tree is truly unique, but there are moments when they intentionally copy other sounds - specifically, the gospel sound of ISHFWILF.

Second, I think what's more important is not how unique an album is absolutely, but how unique it is in the time it's released. CCR's music is great, in part, because they were doing bluegrass-based rock when everybody was doing hippie protest rock. On that point, A Rush of Blood stands up very well - it sounds like nothing else around today. (The key here is that there's little like it "on the radio today," rather than in all music.)

Third, I honestly don't think it's THAT important - what matters more than sonic originality, in my opion, is emotional resonance. Novelty is good, meaningfulness is better. Case in point: Radiohead. They could continue making odder and odder music, but there's a point where it's so strange that it no longer connects with the listener (some would say they've reached that point already).

I would much rather have All That You Can't Leave Behind or A Rush of Blood to the Head - both of which covers very little new sonic ground but connects more fully with the listener.


2. Double meanings. I disagree - I STRONGLY disagree - with the notion that the songs on A Rush of Blood are too straight-forward, too linear; that they lack the ambiguity of The Joshua Tree.

In fact, I contend that the first six songs - most of which are probably considered straight-forward love songs - may actually refer to the Almighty.

- Politik could be a cry for help, a cry directed at God - who looks at Earth from outer space:

Give me peace of mind and trust
Don't forget the rest of us
Give me strength, reserve, control
Give me heart and give me soul
Wounds that heal and cracks that fix
Tell me your own politik


Realistically, the Creator is about the only one who could provide peace of mind, strength, heart, and soul. And the cries to "open up your eyes" could be Chris Martin's way of saying, "Wake up, dead man."

- In My Place, almost certainly a love song, could also been seen as a conversation with the Almighty:

I was scared, I was scared
Tired and underprepared
But I wait for it
And if you go, if you go
And leave me down here on my own
Then I'll wait for you


"Down here," as opposed to "up there," which could be Heaven.

- The Scientist, which I do compare to With or Without You (in emotional power, if not originality), also appears to be another forlorn love song. But, like WOWY, it begs the question: who is he talking to?

It could be seen as a conversation with the Almighty, from a coldly intellectual "scientist" whose pursuits for God through Reason have turned up shallow and empty. There are a few hints to the possibility:

Come up to meet you, tell you I'm sorry
You don't know how lovely you are
I had to find you, tell you I need you
Tell you I set you apart


"Setting you apart" could LITERALLY be a reference to making something holy, which does literally mean "set apart."

I was just guessing at numbers and figures
Pulling your puzzles apart
Questions of science, science and progress
Do not speak as loud as my heart
Tell me you love me, come back and haunt me
Oh and I rush to the start
Running in circles, chasing our tails
Coming back as we are


"Come back and haunt me" could be a call to God the Spirit, and this entire verse backs up my belief that the singer is turning away from Reason toward emotion.

- Clocks, another seeming love song, can ALSO refer to God:

Lights go out and I can't be saved
Tides that I tried to swim against
Have bought me down upon my knees
Oh I beg, I beg and plead


Here, we see the common position for prayer; Bono used similar imagery in Mysterious Ways, "if you wanna kiss the sky / better learn how to kneel (on your knees, boy!)" But beyond that, there's the refrain. "And nothing else compares" sounds almost like a hymn, but more importantly, "you are" could be a direct reference to God - who, in the Old Testament, called Himself "I am."

- And Daylight can also be a reference to God if, like U2's "Gone," the imagery of the sun is replaced with the Son.

I could go on, but I think my point is made. There's a LOT of depth in this album to those willing to look for it.

Bubba
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Old 09-16-2002, 02:32 PM   #35
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Achtung bubba , do you really believe in this catholic bible history ( about god , jesus , apostols , etc etc ) ??????????
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Old 09-16-2002, 03:21 PM   #36
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Oh, Bangers.....

MORE arguing about Coldplay?

Fight clean...

Could this PLEASE be the last mofodaddy thread about Coldplay's new CD?

Unless someone finds a secret hidden track that when you play it backwards, Christ-- I mean Chris Martin -- is reciting Beethoven's 9th symphony concurrently in German AND English all while denouncing the devil......then can we PLEASE not wear out this CD?

It's great that they're getting so much publicity in this little world or ours.....and that people have different opinions about things.... but if you'll look back in the forum since when the CD first came out-- and even BEFORE that-- you'll see just HOW MANY threads were about this exact same thing.

Tanks.
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Old 09-16-2002, 03:27 PM   #37
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(I have no intention to have this thread go off-topic, but I will try to answer the question asked.)

Quote:
Originally posted by pinkfloyd
Achtung bubba , do you really believe in this catholic bible history ( about god , jesus , apostols , etc etc ) ??????????
Concerning this thread, I'm not sure whether the Coldplay songs are intentionally written about God, intentionally ambiguous about the point, or just the result of a "happy accident."

Anyway, I'm not sure what you mean by "Catholic Bible history," since I am an evangelical Protestant, but I do believe that the Bible is the divinely inspired Word of God. I believe that some of the Bible may not be fact (specifically, the first chapters of Genesis and the details within Revelation), but that even these parts of Scripture contain Truth. Beyond that, I believe that other parts of the Bible are absolute, HISTORICAL fact.

I believe that there was a man named Jesus, born around 3 B.C., who taught for a short time in modern-day Israel. He claimed to be God and was executed for - among other reasons - such bold heresy. I believe He then rose from the dead shortly thereafter (that He did physically come back to life), and that He is still alive to this very day - though He has returned from whence He came, promising to come back in His full glory.

Believing that incredible miracle of the Resurrection, I find it easy to believe the other things written about His life: the Virgin Birth, walking on water, healing the blind and the lame, feeding the multitudes with scraps of bread and fish. I believe His teachings: that He is THE Way, that no one sees the Father except through Him, that those who believe in Him (to the point that their lives change) will enjoy with Him life everlasting. I believe that, as He promised, those who follow Him have received a Comforter, the Holy Spirit (the third component in the three-in-one God) who guides us and confirms to whom we belong.

And I believe that God Himself guided those who wrote about Jesus, and that those writings have been more or less preserved over the last two thousand years.

Even the most skeptical scholars rarely dispute the following:

- That Jesus is a historical figure, as much as Julius Caesar or George Washington.

- That Jesus was executed by the Romans.

- That His followers - even those who personally knew Him and testified to SEEING Him after the execution - believed so fully that He was alive that they were willing to DIE over it.

If His closest friends knew the Resurrection was a lie, they wouldn't have died for it.

Further, Jesus didn't speak like a Socrates or an Aristotle - as one presenting theories about how the world works. He consistently spoke with divine authority, as if He was the world's Author, as if He was God Himself. As C.S. Lewis pointed out in Mere Christianity, one cannot call such a man a "good teacher." Either He was a madman, He was a man LITERALLY demon-possessed, or He is who He said He is.

His teachings certainly don't sound like the ravings of a lunatic or the treachery of a demon to me.

Simply put, I believe Jesus Christ is - present tense, IS - the Son of God. He is my Savior, saving me from my own selfish stupidity. And I daily strive to make Him my Master and Lord, the ruler of all I think, say, and do.

Bubba
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Old 09-16-2002, 03:31 PM   #38
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AND THEN AND THEN AND THEN

O yeah......also, in the words of the great Wedge Antilles....STAY ON TARGET

Bang away.

It's all fun and games till someone loses an eye.

Then it's just fun....

nevertheless..... stay on topic and let's all just say if Coldplay is good or bad once and for all.
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Old 09-16-2002, 03:31 PM   #39
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Normal mona. help.

omc.

STOP THE MADNESS!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 09-16-2002, 03:33 PM   #40
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Ok maybe I should be more pacific.

Bubba Sir.... I'm certain your opinions are very well formulated and supported.... but I think a lot of that is more appropriate for a discussion in a forum like FYM or at LEAST another thread.

I think there actually WAS one just like this one.

With the same thing.

Actually, there were like 8.


PinkFloyd......dood.....you should know better.
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Old 09-16-2002, 03:56 PM   #41
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Gotta admit that i'm a little bit confused..

it was just a question , thank you for your good well opened answer Achtung bubba , i'm a SW fan too by the way !!
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Old 09-16-2002, 04:08 PM   #42
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No problemo, pinkfloyd - and I'm glad to see ya like Star Wars, too.

Actually, the mods' comments deserve a response, as well. But I will defer that to another post...

Bubba
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Old 09-16-2002, 04:12 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by MonaVox
Ok maybe I should be more pacific.

Bubba Sir.... I'm certain your opinions are very well formulated and supported.... but I think a lot of that is more appropriate for a discussion in a forum like FYM or at LEAST another thread.

I think there actually WAS one just like this one.

With the same thing.

Actually, there were like 8.


PinkFloyd......dood.....you should know better.
As I said at the VERY BEGINNING of that thread, I did not - and still do not - want this thread to go off-topic. But Pink Floyd asked ME a very specific question within this thread, and I went ahead and answered it.

Had he asked the question via a Private Message, I would have responded via a Private Message. He asked me publically in this thread; I responded publically in this thread.

What was I supposed to do? Tell him I wouldn't answer the question unless it was posted in Free Your Mind? (Need I remind you that I can neither read nor post in that forum?)

Or are you requiring me (and me alone) to simply cease all forms of comments religious and political DESPITE the context? Am I to ignore pinkfloyd's question? Was I to remain silent on threads within Lemonade Stand and EVERY OTHER forum if they just happen to have a religious or political slant?

I'm sorry, but that's not going to happen.

I've already made this privately clear to Elvis; I will make this publically clear now. I am trying to be as nice as possible about this, but I will continue posting my religious and political beliefs as long as they are appropriate to the specific forum and thread. Scream STOP THE MADNESS! all you want, berate me all you want, but I will not cooperate with an attempt to silence me to THAT degree.

(For goodness' sake, we're in a forum about U2, a band who is MOST known for their religious and political beliefs! I do not understand the efforts to target one member and silence his religious and political beliefs.)

I beg you guys, moderators and admins: allow me some breathing room to post religious and political posts when appropriate. Pinkfloyd asked me specifically a religious question; surely I should be allowed to answer; doing so in this thread was appropriate.

If you will not do allow me this freedom that everybody else here clearly enjoys, if you want me silenced on these two subjects, you're going to have to enforce that request yourself. You will have to ban me.

Bubba
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Old 09-16-2002, 04:15 PM   #44
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Can you take a break for one flipping day, bubba?


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Old 09-16-2002, 04:17 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by Achtung Bubba
I've already made this privately clear to Elvis; I will make this publically clear now. I am trying to be as nice as possible about this, but I will continue posting my religious and political beliefs as long as they are appropriate to the specific forum and thread. Scream STOP THE MADNESS! all you want, berate me all you want, but I will not cooperate with an attempt to silence me to THAT degree.
i was kidding bubba. i'm not berating you, nor am i trying to silence you. i think you might have read into my reply a little too deeply. if i am attempting to make a serious comment, i usually do not start my reply with oh my cat. i just find it humorous that these coldplay threads keep turning into such emotionally charged fights, that's all.
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