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Old 06-21-2008, 02:28 AM   #601
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Australia has always been disgustingly racist, not just to the Aborigines either. Immigrants get a lot of shit too, and they treat others the way they get treated, it's a shit cycle.

I mean, there's a difference between a bit of ribbing over being a Kiwi and constantly being given shit for it.
Not sure how you can say that since you're not Australian, indeed you get ockers and countryfolk that might say something rude because they're not used to seeing so many Indians, Africans, Arabs and east Asians, but I've never seen someone yell prejudice on the streets, probably only very, very drunk people. Race is a big issue that's dominant here, but I don't think we're as bad as you guys might think. Don't know how it is outside of Adelaide, though.
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Old 06-21-2008, 02:31 AM   #602
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Oh, that's another thing - Australia in the early 20th century loved Maoris, lots of them were sent here and regarded highly. But yes, the Aboriginals were still seen as subhuman.
The Maori really did themselves a lot of favours in the eyes of Europeans by being extremely skilled at warfare and actually defeating the British on numerous occasions, to the point that Britain never actually was able to occupy the central North Island. The central North Island is not called the King Country because of any English monarch; it's because the Maori King had sovereignty! The only reason European settlement ever took place in the King Country is because the Maori permitted them to build the Auckland - Wellington railway through there. Woops. The intention was for the trains to simply run through there, but the Maori didn't count on all those construction camps and railway refuelling stations turning into permanent towns.
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Old 06-21-2008, 02:32 AM   #603
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I of course admire the bond between the Maori and pakeha in New Zealand, I think that might never happen in Australia.
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Old 06-21-2008, 02:32 AM   #604
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k gotta work a double tomorrow and somehow attend a graduation party.
So I need sleep.
Goodnight!
Have a good one!
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Ian McCulloch the U2 fan:
"Who buys U2 records anyway? It's just music for plumbers and bricklayers. Bono, what a slob. You'd think with all that climbing about he does, he'd look real fit and that. But he's real fat, y'know. Reminds me of a soddin' mountain goat."
"And as for Bono, he needs a colostomy bag for his mouth."

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Old 06-21-2008, 02:34 AM   #605
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The Maori really did themselves a lot of favours in the eyes of Europeans by being extremely skilled at warfare and actually defeating the British on numerous occasions, to the point that Britain never actually was able to occupy the central North Island. The central North Island is not called the King Country because of any English monarch; it's because the Maori King had sovereignty! The only reason European settlement ever took place in the King Country is because the Maori permitted them to build the Auckland - Wellington railway through there. Woops. The intention was for the trains to simply run through there, but the Maori didn't count on all those construction camps and railway refuelling stations turning into permanent towns.
So trains are the reason North Island was colonised. Well, in that case the history of railways in NZ actually sounds more interesting than I thought it would be!
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Old 06-21-2008, 02:38 AM   #606
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Not sure how you can say that since you're not Australian, indeed you get ockers and countryfolk that might say something rude because they're not used to seeing so many Indians, Africans, Arabs and east Asians, but I've never seen someone yell prejudice on the streets, probably only very, very drunk people. Race is a big issue that's dominant here, but I don't think we're as bad as you guys might think. Don't know how it is outside of Adelaide, though.
No, I'd echo Ian's comments. This country's latent, subconscious racism is probably some of the worst in the world. It targets everyone, and the Basil Fawlty "oh, he's from Barcelona" attitude seems to apply to just about anybody who doesn't come from an English-speaking background. I'm sick to death of hearing racist comments about Sudanese, "wogs", "Lebs", Muslims, Indians ... I know people who avoid the Gold Coast Hospital because they're afraid they'll get an Indian doctor.

And just as a Kiwi, I had a shit time in Australia initially. I'm sick of the same stupid insults being repeated ad nauseum. No need to rub it in for a whole fucking decade.
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Ian McCulloch the U2 fan:
"Who buys U2 records anyway? It's just music for plumbers and bricklayers. Bono, what a slob. You'd think with all that climbing about he does, he'd look real fit and that. But he's real fat, y'know. Reminds me of a soddin' mountain goat."
"And as for Bono, he needs a colostomy bag for his mouth."

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Old 06-21-2008, 02:43 AM   #607
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Subconscious racism, yeah. A real identity with where you're from and what you are. But I don't hear so many racist comments from my friends or people I'm usually with - and the people that say them tend to be wankers anyway. It's not on everyone's mind, we're not all like that. I think you'd get the same in other countries like the States too, I'm afraid we all can't be fucking New Zealand!
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Old 06-21-2008, 02:44 AM   #608
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So trains are the reason North Island was colonised. Well, in that case the history of railways in NZ actually sounds more interesting than I thought it would be!
Part of the reason I study history is because of railways. You really can't be a Kiwi railfan without finding yourself learning about stuff that is at the absolute centre of how the country developed. In the 19th century, the railway was viewed as the means of opening up both islands to settlement beyond the coastal towns and ports that had been established. It was just impossible to travel any kind of distance before the railway - if you lived in Tauranga in 1855, the central government then in Auckland might as well have been on the moon to you. When the railway opened, suddenly they were less than a day apart.

One of my core points that I repeat fairly frequently is that the development of a national railway network turned New Zealand from a bunch of disconnected British coastal colonies into a cohesive, independent country.
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Ian McCulloch the U2 fan:
"Who buys U2 records anyway? It's just music for plumbers and bricklayers. Bono, what a slob. You'd think with all that climbing about he does, he'd look real fit and that. But he's real fat, y'know. Reminds me of a soddin' mountain goat."
"And as for Bono, he needs a colostomy bag for his mouth."

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Old 06-21-2008, 02:45 AM   #609
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Part of the reason I study history is because of railways. You really can't be a Kiwi railfan without finding yourself learning about stuff that is at the absolute centre of how the country developed. In the 19th century, the railway was viewed as the means of opening up both islands to settlement beyond the coastal towns and ports that had been established. It was just impossible to travel any kind of distance before the railway - if you lived in Tauranga in 1855, the central government then in Auckland might as well have been on the moon to you. When the railway opened, suddenly they were less than a day apart.

One of my core points that I repeat fairly frequently is that the development of a national railway network turned New Zealand from a bunch of disconnected British coastal colonies into a cohesive, independent country.
That's pretty damn cool! Tell me then, how much of a role did railways play over here?
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Old 06-21-2008, 02:47 AM   #610
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I'm afraid we all can't be fucking New Zealand!
Note my sudden hostility here, I start defending a country I hate, I must be a little patriotic after all!
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Old 06-21-2008, 02:47 AM   #611
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Subconscious racism, yeah. A real identity with where you're from and what you are. But I don't hear so many racist comments from my friends or people I'm usually with - and the people that say them tend to be wankers anyway. It's not on everyone's mind, we're not all like that. I think you'd get the same in other countries like the States too, I'm afraid we all can't be fucking New Zealand!
See, I've encountered it even from my own family and friends, both Aussie and Kiwi branches, and I find it deeply troubling. The difference I've noticed is that those who do it in New Zealand tend to have right wing political tendencies and it isn't all too surprising, but in Australia, I'll even hear it from people firmly on the left.

But I do get the feeling that the Gold Coast isn't exactly a hub of intellect and positive race relations. I've found things more positive in Melbourne.
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Ian McCulloch the U2 fan:
"Who buys U2 records anyway? It's just music for plumbers and bricklayers. Bono, what a slob. You'd think with all that climbing about he does, he'd look real fit and that. But he's real fat, y'know. Reminds me of a soddin' mountain goat."
"And as for Bono, he needs a colostomy bag for his mouth."

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Old 06-21-2008, 02:50 AM   #612
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You know what. Life is good. just thought I'd say so
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Old 06-21-2008, 02:54 AM   #613
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I agree. Life is good
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Old 06-21-2008, 02:55 AM   #614
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That's pretty damn cool! Tell me then, how much of a role did railways play over here?
I don't know the history of Australia's railways nearly as well, but from what I do know, it was on a lesser scale to New Zealand. Especially in Victoria and New South Wales, the railways were used to build the regional economy, though the land had been already opened up to settlement unlike in New Zealand, where the towns came with the railway.

Since Australia was much more established by the coming of the railway and the colonies/states were well entrenched, it wasn't really possible for the railway to play the socio-political role it did in New Zealand of breaking down provincial boundaries.
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Ian McCulloch the U2 fan:
"Who buys U2 records anyway? It's just music for plumbers and bricklayers. Bono, what a slob. You'd think with all that climbing about he does, he'd look real fit and that. But he's real fat, y'know. Reminds me of a soddin' mountain goat."
"And as for Bono, he needs a colostomy bag for his mouth."

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Old 06-21-2008, 02:56 AM   #615
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I'm afraid we all can't be fucking New Zealand!
No, but it would be a nice olive branch if you sent over a few attractive females to try.
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