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Old 06-21-2008, 02:16 AM   #586
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that's horrible. i never thought i'd say this, but compared to australia, it sounds like we've treated native americans better than aborigines have been treated! that's not saying much since we've pushed them onto reservations and forced them across the country and killed anyone who refused to move, but at least they were counted in the census!
I think that, despite being two indigenous people that were fucked over the white man, the situations with aboriginal Australians and Native Americans have their differences. For one thing, we didn't turn the aboriginals into football mascots and cigarette logos.
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Old 06-21-2008, 02:16 AM   #587
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Go on. You'll like it.
:books plane ticket:
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Old 06-21-2008, 02:18 AM   #588
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Our treatment of the indigenous people is probably the main reason I'm not proud to be an Australian.

The general opinion was that they weren't even human, even at the beginning of the 20th century. And still, today - even with all that 'sorry' bullshit, even with more aboriginal players in sports than ever before, even with Peter Garret, even with massive Aboriginal flags flying with Australian ones everywhere in major cities, even with all that - almost every aboriginal person you see today has been ruined by drugs and alcohol, from racism, there is still so much racism towards them by the general white population, even from more recent immigrants. People don't think they have a culture. Even though it's possible that the earliest written language actually occurred somewhere in QLD, but we'll ignore that...
I think it's telling that if you live in any major Australian centre, seeing an Aborigine is a curiosity and something memorable. I've seen more people from Africa this year than Aborigines. The marginalisation is beyond nauseating. The sooner this country actually acknowledges it has a massive racism problem, one of the worst on the planet, the sooner we might actually get somewhere and improve the lot of a people whose culture and history makes European culture and history sometimes seem pretty piss-weak in comparison.
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Old 06-21-2008, 02:18 AM   #589
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I think that, despite being two indigenous people that were fucked over the white man, the situations with aboriginal Australians and Native Americans have their differences. For one thing, we didn't turn the aboriginals into football mascots and cigarette logos.
oh yeah, i agree. but i mean still, to say a whole race of people just "don't count" - that's horrible. the closest thing i could say we had like that here was the ridiculous 3/5ths rule back during slavery.
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Old 06-21-2008, 02:19 AM   #590
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I think that, despite being two indigenous people that were fucked over the white man, the situations with aboriginal Australians and Native Americans have their differences. For one thing, we didn't turn the aboriginals into football mascots and cigarette logos.
Maybe being only 50% native American gives me no right to say anything, but the mascot factor doesn't REALLY offend me. Maybe a little bit, but no where near as much as the fact taht Andrew Jackson is on the $20. That is an atrocity to all the horrors Native Americans suffered at his hands
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Old 06-21-2008, 02:19 AM   #591
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I think that, despite being two indigenous people that were fucked over the white man, the situations with aboriginal Australians and Native Americans have their differences. For one thing, we didn't turn the aboriginals into football mascots and cigarette logos.
I should stay quiet considering the name and logo of my favourite sports team, but i might as well say that it's always been used with the blessing of Maori (apart from when it was cursed) and there are people who understand the logo and it's representation.

It's not godawful cheesy like the Cleveland Indians.
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Old 06-21-2008, 02:20 AM   #592
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Go on. You'll like it.
Get outta here!

Oh, that's another thing - Australia in the early 20th century loved Maoris, lots of them were sent here and regarded highly. But yes, the Aboriginals were still seen as subhuman.

In primary school I was the only white kid to embrace the two aboriginal students with friendship. And when I and a few friends did a fundraising thing for the local Nurrungas in highschool, almost every other year 12 asked why we'd give money to them, because they'd 'just spend it on rum' and shit like that. The 'sorry' thing is bullshit. There is still so much more that needs to be done.
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Old 06-21-2008, 02:21 AM   #593
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I think it's telling that if you live in any major Australian centre, seeing an Aborigine is a curiosity and something memorable. I've seen more people from Africa this year than Aborigines. The marginalisation is beyond nauseating. The sooner this country actually acknowledges it has a massive racism problem, one of the worst on the planet, the sooner we might actually get somewhere and improve the lot of a people whose culture and history makes European culture and history sometimes seem pretty piss-weak in comparison.
Australia has always been disgustingly racist, not just to the Aborigines either. Immigrants get a lot of shit too, and they treat others the way they get treated, it's a shit cycle.

I mean, there's a difference between a bit of ribbing over being a Kiwi and constantly being given shit for it.
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Old 06-21-2008, 02:22 AM   #594
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Go on. You'll like it.
WIN.

Though if I may say so:

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Old 06-21-2008, 02:23 AM   #595
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WIN.

Though if I may say so:

Interesting point. My preference if we even bothered with a change would just be to stick our nice red southern cross on that nice blue background.

Or something similar to the Khanadian, er, Canadian flag.
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Old 06-21-2008, 02:25 AM   #596
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Maybe being only 50% native American gives me no right to say anything, but the mascot factor doesn't REALLY offend me. Maybe a little bit, but no where near as much as the fact taht Andrew Jackson is on the $20. That is an atrocity to all the horrors Native Americans suffered at his hands
I was wondering how you'd feel about that, actually. Yeah, I totally understand with the Jackson thing, I think that's incredibly sickening - Native American history is really one of the only aspects of American history I enjoy reading about, in fact I only read about the Revolutionary War to know about the roles the Iroquois tribes played in it.
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Old 06-21-2008, 02:25 AM   #597
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Maybe a little bit, but no where near as much as the fact taht Andrew Jackson is on the $20. That is an atrocity to all the horrors Native Americans suffered at his hands
seriously. up until dubya, i thought jackson was the worst president this nation has had.
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Old 06-21-2008, 02:25 AM   #598
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Old 06-21-2008, 02:26 AM   #599
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I should stay quiet considering the name and logo of my favourite sports team, but i might as well say that it's always been used with the blessing of Maori (apart from when it was cursed) and there are people who understand the logo and it's representation.

It's not godawful cheesy like the Cleveland Indians.
Yeah, I think a lot of the use of Maori culture by Pakeha in New Zealand is very positive and quite conscious of its meaning and significance. It's cultural integration and mutual respect rather than cheesy appropriation. I think it says a lot that plenty of white people, myself included, racially identify as Pakeha rather than European or white or whatever. I sure as hell am not European (I've never been there, FFS!), nor do I think of myself as white as that is such a vague, stupid term. I'm Pakeha, simple as that. And that's precisely what I wrote on the 2006 Australian census too.
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Old 06-21-2008, 02:27 AM   #600
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k gotta work a double tomorrow and somehow attend a graduation party.
So I need sleep.
Goodnight!
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