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Old 11-12-2004, 02:40 PM   #1
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Hip-Hop/Rap vs. Punk

Okay, I'm really ignorant. I have barely listened to rap and hip-hop since like rundmc, but hearing the words bitch and nigga and ho so often makes me want to puke...but for some reason lately I am trying to understand all this.
Is this musical form trying to do the same that punk did, trying to challenge the man, the authority, with a fuckyou in your faceness, challenging the order? It doesn't feel that way to me, and I'm feeling a need to understand it all...
anybody willing to try and help a poor ignorant white girl who just turned 39 with this?
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Old 11-12-2004, 03:30 PM   #2
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punks despise everything , while lots of rappers like to be gangsters , admire such stuff , rappers have more ties with crime , i don't like this , punks had better ideals ( ideals were rotten , johnny rotten i would say )
and btw , Sid Vicious is still the best bass on earth
the major difference is that rap is alive and well + more connected with reality , punk culture = long time dead , lots of fake stuff

it's no good , maybe not


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Old 11-12-2004, 03:41 PM   #3
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Johnny Cash was the best punk.
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Old 11-12-2004, 03:49 PM   #4
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Both are relatively minimalistic in terms of music...
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Old 11-12-2004, 04:01 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrBrau1
Johnny Cash was the best punk.
bollocks !! Boba Fett was the best punk
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Old 11-12-2004, 04:14 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by WinnieThePoo
punks despise everything

I really, REALLY disagree with this. OK, maybe the Pistols were nihilists, and maybe a lot of punk bands are or have been nihilists. But a lot of bands simply saw something wrong with the way things were, and wanted to be part of something, even if they couldn't play their instruments or sing on key. The Clash were quite possibly the greatest band between the Beatles and U2, and they were not motivated by hate. Anger, yes. Anger out of genuine frustration, seeking to raise awareness about racism, oppression etc. Not trying to be soap-boxy, but I think that was an unfair statement.

I think that a great deal of hip-hop came out of a movement for social awareness, but has degenerated into vulgarity to move units.
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Old 11-12-2004, 04:47 PM   #7
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clash were not 100% punk purists
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Old 11-12-2004, 07:49 PM   #8
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I feel like i have to say something positive about hip hop / punk

first: both genres are about the city, the urban enviroment... they are different ways of seeing, listen and living the city. I like both.... i'm not the kind of people who say "if i like punk I can't listen rap" and silly stuff like that.
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Old 11-12-2004, 07:54 PM   #9
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I hate categories... pure punk, pure rap, pop, emo.... everyone has different opinions (sometimes very extreme) about what fits and what doesn't. That's what I love most about Clash, music from (or atleast influenced by) many different "genres".

But about Rap, I don't think they're going for the shock value, since it's not scandalous anymore (actually nothing is more mainstream). I'm just wondering how much more of this sugary dessert can people take?

And, you weren't serious about Sid's playing were you?
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Old 11-12-2004, 09:00 PM   #10
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Musically, no, the Clash were not punk purists. But their ideology has had more of a lasting impact than any other group. Looking at modern punk acts like the Dropkick Murphys reveals very much the same thing:

The statements made aren't simply "fuck the world." The Murphys come from a tradition of trying to improve the world starting at a local level- the importance of family, friends, and fair labor practices. I don't really think of punk as simply a musical form, and I think to do so is silly and childish.

The Ramones were not nihilists, either. They were trying to find something real in a world of facades and emptiness. The music world was bloated and stupid; life on the streets was horrible; music was a place in which to try and change things, not to destroy them.
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Old 11-12-2004, 09:22 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by UnforgettableLemon
I think that a great deal of hip-hop came out of a movement for social awareness, but has degenerated into vulgarity to move units.


Rappers like Public Enemy had a lot in common with bands like The Clash.
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Old 11-12-2004, 09:26 PM   #12
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Yes, Public Enemy were great, even as far back as Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five, to an extent NWA. I think NWA were sort of the transition. They had some genuine feeling to their lyrics, but sold to white kids and immature types because they cursed so much. This trend has been exploited to death. It's become a formula. So while NWA had some interesting things to say, their technique has been isolated and bastardized into a fucking travesty.
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Old 11-13-2004, 12:25 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by UnforgettableLemon



I really, REALLY disagree with this. OK, maybe the Pistols were nihilists, and maybe a lot of punk bands are or have been nihilists. But a lot of bands simply saw something wrong with the way things were, and wanted to be part of something, even if they couldn't play their instruments or sing on key. The Clash were quite possibly the greatest band between the Beatles and U2, and they were not motivated by hate. Anger, yes. Anger out of genuine frustration, seeking to raise awareness about racism, oppression etc. Not trying to be soap-boxy, but I think that was an unfair statement.

I think that a great deal of hip-hop came out of a movement for social awareness, but has degenerated into vulgarity to move units.


yes, that was indeed bullshit.



i'll spare you all my further comments for now. maybe forever. i think this is a terribly stupid thread in general, no offence to the poster.
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Old 11-13-2004, 01:05 AM   #14
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Punk music-the real punk music- was so important for its time. It changed the face of music.

And the Clash killed punk music
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Old 11-13-2004, 11:29 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by UnforgettableLemon
Yes, Public Enemy were great, even as far back as Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five, to an extent NWA. I think NWA were sort of the transition. They had some genuine feeling to their lyrics, but sold to white kids and immature types because they cursed so much. This trend has been exploited to death. It's become a formula. So while NWA had some interesting things to say, their technique has been isolated and bastardized into a fucking travesty.
could not have said it better myself. nwa and some of the other early gangsta rap had the nihilistic attitude of punk but still tempered with some semblence of social conciousness.

nwa was pretty much the turning point, as the genre's "obscene" lyrics became more or less a marketing tool to reach a popular (read: white) audience. nwa went in that direction after ice cube left, as he was really the conscience of that group.

still, i consider ice cube's early solo albums (and to lesser extent, dr. dre's "the chronic") to be punk albums driven by a genuine sense of nihilistic anger born out of social injustice
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