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Old 03-23-2002, 02:13 PM   #1
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hart trophy: who should get it and why with about 10 games left



i'm gonna vote for my hometown fave-sundin.

Over the past few years Mats Sundin has ascended the ladder of respectability within the Toronto hockey scene. Things were not stacked in his favor when he arrived in 1994 as Wendel Clark was traded away to the Nordiques. He gained few fans when Douggie Gilmour was traded away under auspicions that not even Toronto was big enough for both of them. And when he became the first Swedish captain before the start of the 1997 there were some who hated him.

He went through some mediocre seasons but as the playoffs geared up last year, and a severely underacheiving Maple Leafs squad emerged from their post-Christmas confusion to take the eventual East champion Devils to seven games, Sundin emerged as the unequivocal leader of this club. This year he has only built on that premise. He has been the man on the Maple Leafs who has potted the big goal when the team needed it, to win the game when the fans were depending upon him. He is tied for second in goals in the league and is frequently the most dominant player when he steps on the ice. moreso than anyone else in the game this year he has led his team to success.

anyone concur or have a different proposition?

[This message has been edited by kobayashi (edited 03-23-2002).]
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Old 03-23-2002, 04:07 PM   #2
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what about Gagne then?
he hasn't carried the Flyers single-handedly but he has really blossomed into one hell of a player this year, and I only think he'll continue to grow.

btw, koba, I'm pissed at my Flyers again
it's partly goal-tending, mostly FOCUS. (they just tied the Penguins who they should beat easily, and gave up two goals in the first minute of the third). They have so much potential, especially now with Oates, and yet they just can't put it together for some reason. I want my Roenick back!!!!!!He'll help them, he's such a spark-plug in the lockeroom. And a cutie

ahh don't mind me I'm just frustrated and sorry for hijacking your thread here


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Old 03-23-2002, 04:15 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by BabyGrace:
btw, koba, I'm pissed at my Flyers again
it's partly goal-tending, mostly FOCUS. (they just tied the Penguins who they should beat easily, and gave up two goals in the first minute of the third). They have so much potential, especially now with Oates, and yet they just can't put it together for some reason. I want my Roenick back!!!!!!He'll help them, he's such a spark-plug in the lockeroom. And a cutie

ahh don't mind me I'm just frustrated and sorry for hijacking your thread here


perhaps the bill barber trouble rumors are true. thats generally the prescription when a team won't respond in spite of its talent. the leafs were in much the same but for all of last spring and then the playoffs hit, swept ottawa in 4, took jersey to 7 coulda shoulda gone to the cup.

threads are fluid and can change course back and forth. i wish more people would realize that
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Old 03-23-2002, 04:19 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by BabyGrace:
what about Gagne then?
he hasn't carried the Flyers single-handedly but he has really blossomed into one hell of a player this year, and I only think he'll continue to grow.
you weren't alive????????
i just went and checked and i what i thought was right: he passed in 1985.

how old are you?
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Old 03-23-2002, 04:30 PM   #5
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well with Clarke, coaches are always in trouble. Since he ditched Murray because of Lindros (and he has admitted that was a mistake) he has not been able to stick with one coach for too long. I know Barber should stay; I saw what he did with the Phantoms a couple of years ago and that guy is one heck of a coach, there is no doubt. He's done an excellent job managing the Flyers wacked psyche so far this year too, at least up until now, and he may still be able to pull them back together. Basically, I think at this point, Clarke should maybe move on as GM, I never thought I'd say that because I've always been the strongest Clarke supporter, but that guy really seems snake-bitten as GM for whatever reason. I also think the Flyers tendency to hire 'family' hurts them at times, but I'm way beyond myself now; they're still second in the East at this point and we've still got the playoffs

ok, fine I was a year old when Pele was killed; I definitely never saw him play though. Well besides once on a Comcast Classics thing (which is the only way Ive seen my boys win a Cup too)

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Old 03-23-2002, 08:53 PM   #6
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To answer this, it is important to look at the definition of the Hart Trophy. Keep in mind, it is not a typical MVP trophy -- meaning it is not for the league's most valuable player, but, rather, for the player most valuable to his team. This is why Gretzky won the Hart trophy in 1989, even though Lemieux had 199 points compared to his 168. Gretzky was judged more valuable to his team, as he took the LA Kings from 4th worst, the year before, to 4th best (or something absurd like that anyway). He had a huge impact, and therefore was awarded the Hart trophy. Lemieux's Penguins, however, were quite horrible that year. So, yes, the team factor is very important.

Now, much of what I just said might be thrown out of the window, as I believe this year's Hart trophy *should* go to Markus Naslund of Vancouver, even though the Canucks are in danger of missing the playoffs. Without him, you see, the Canucks would have no hope at all of making the playoffs. With him, they're a strong team, and really should be much higher in the the standings than they are. He is their superstar, and is in the top 4 or 5 scoring in the entire league. Enough reason for me.

Plus he's a great guy (I see him quite often and he's always very polite). Okay, so that's not the best reason, but whatever...

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Old 03-24-2002, 03:12 AM   #7
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I gotta go with Jarome Iginla. Sundin has had an amazing year for the Leafs, but I think that Iginla has meant more to his team than any player this season. Without him, the Flames wouldn't even have a mathematical shot of making the playoffs.
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Old 03-24-2002, 03:42 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Blunt Edge:
I gotta go with Jarome Iginla. Sundin has had an amazing year for the Leafs, but I think that Iginla has meant more to his team than any player this season. Without him, the Flames wouldn't even have a mathematical shot of making the playoffs.
umm to an extent. but success of the team has to be a factor as well. iginla is huge on the team and the team hasn't been successful, sundin is huge on the team and the team is successful.
i would love to argue that jim kelly is one of the greatest qb's ever but i can't cause his team was repeatedly horrible in the super bowl.
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Old 03-24-2002, 03:51 AM   #9
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I'm not a huge Sundin fan but I would agree he is an excellent candidate. I would say Oates because of his assists but that kinda doesn't work now that he's with the Flyers (not that I'm complaining )
I don't really know, I don't watch enough hockey besides my guys.

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Old 03-24-2002, 03:51 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by kobayashi:
umm to an extent. but success of the team has to be a factor as well. iginla is huge on the team and the team hasn't been successful, sundin is huge on the team and the team is successful.
You bring up a good point regarding team success. It's hard to argue with it, and if you look back at previous Hart winners, they've all come from winning teams. I have to admit that I'm not a Leafs fan, and that may be my bias against Sundin (even though he's in my pool). Another player who I think has a shot is Patrick Roy. The Avalanche haven't relied as much on their offence this year (no Forsberg) and Roy has kept them in many a game.
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Old 03-24-2002, 03:53 AM   #11
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The Avalanche haven't relied as much on their offence this year (no Forsberg) and Roy has kept them in many a game.
tis true.
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Old 03-24-2002, 03:58 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by BabyGrace:
I'm not a huge Sundin fan but I would agree he is an excellent candidate. I would say Oates because of his assists but that kinda doesn't work now that he's with the Flyers (not that I'm complaining )
I don't really know, I don't watch enough hockey besides my guys.

oates is always a good choice. i wouldn't have a problem with him winning it(aside from the fact that imo sundin deserves it) but i couldn't see him being selected 'cause he simply doesn't have the star power. at this point in his career, the nhl doesn't want him to be one of their top marketable properties.
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Old 03-24-2002, 07:37 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Michael Griffiths:
To answer this, it is important to look at the definition of the Hart Trophy. Keep in mind, it is not a typical MVP trophy -- meaning it is not for the league's most valuable player, but, rather, for the player most valuable to his team.
I think keeping this statement in mind Iginla is a likely candidate... he's earned over 50% of the Flames' points this season and if it weren't for him, the team would be effectively hooped. As for overall team preformance affecting Iginla's chances at the Hart Trophy, it's almost a testimony as to how much he's worth to the Flames.

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