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Old 07-11-2007, 11:17 PM   #76
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Originally posted by Teta040
btw, sorry, mate. i felt you'd overreacted and i ended up doing the same.
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Old 07-12-2007, 12:00 AM   #77
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Utoo, I'm not a mate, BTW, I'm a gal....but you'd never know that. my name comes from Empress Teta, a character from the Star Wars Extended Universe.(the novels.)

OK, looking back on that post I agree the first part was a bit harsh. I'm sorry, really.... But if you look at it, it WAS a long post. (of course I don't expect any answers now.) I'm not new to this site, but I don't have a lot of time to post and don't post on any part of the site except News and Free Your Mind. I guess the heat of the political discussions has rubbed off on me.

I had no idea Zoo Station was a film review area, I would have gone there if I had.

Anyway, since I seem to be radioactive at the moment, I'll just bow off here for now. But if I choose to Apparate here in future, am I welcome to join in Book 7 discussion? You guys are saying some great things that I hadn't evden thought of.

I'll say one thing though....in the film, after Sirius falls through the viel, a few mins later there is an "Obi-wan" moment that is NOT in the book..I too went back and reread. Harry hears Sirius' voice, just as Luke heard Obi-wan just after Vader cut him down. Anybody think the two-way mirror will not come back?

And to the person who talked about being scared for Ron and Hermione, I agree. The blatant,in-your-face way Yates constantly pares them onscreen, standing opposite Harry, is jarring to say the least. But I still think that is TOO shocking. I just can't see Jo making Harry live and his friends die. I';d think it would be ther other way around.
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Old 07-12-2007, 12:41 AM   #78
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Originally posted by LemonMacPhisto
I still don't buy Michael Gambon as Dumbledore, especially when he manhandles Harry during one scene in HP4. That really bothered me.

This is probably too far fetched, but Peter O'Toole could've been great as Dumbledore 2.0.


That scene always bothered me too.... so not Dumbledore.

And Peter O'Toole would have been awesome.
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Old 07-12-2007, 12:46 AM   #79
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The transition of Dumbledore from HP1/2 to HP3/4 has to be the roughest thing I've seen in a movie series. He went from wise and gentle to ill-tempered, loud, and angry.
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Old 07-12-2007, 12:50 AM   #80
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The transition of Dumbledore from HP1/2 to HP3/4 has to be the roughest thing I've seen in a movie series. He went from wise and gentle to ill-tempered, loud, and angry.
I totally agree. In the books he's portrayed as a fun loving, nice man, which Richard Harris was able to convey beautifully. I found myself really disliking how Michael Gambon portrayed Dumbledore - he seemed like a completely different character. I hope things are different in this movie.
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Old 07-12-2007, 01:17 AM   #81
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Originally posted by phillyfan26
The transition of Dumbledore from HP1/2 to HP3/4 has to be the roughest thing I've seen in a movie series. He went from wise and gentle to ill-tempered, loud, and angry.
He must've been eating too many Cheese Doodles.
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Old 07-12-2007, 01:47 AM   #82
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Originally posted by phillyfan26
The transition of Dumbledore from HP1/2 to HP3/4 has to be the roughest thing I've seen in a movie series. He went from wise and gentle to ill-tempered, loud, and angry.

Spoilers for the movie follow!


To be honest, I really enjoyed Harris for the innocent books when he was a sweet loving old man who just had wise words for Harry.
I'm glad to see someone more...um, active, as Dumbledore now with all the battles and stuff. He's not whimsical in the books anymore and in this movie he really shows that he's the baddest muthafucka on the planet. When he appeared in the battle scene I totally said "OH SHIT, SON!"
I still hear Richard Harris' voice every time I read dialogue involving Dumbledore, though.

The movie was fantastic.
The only problems I really had with it were:
That the Snape's Worst Memory scene was wayyy too short. But then again, I love the way it is written so much that I don't think any film would have done it justice. Maybe it's just something that I'll have to love in my own way.
Ron and Hermione were complete bystanders in this movie! I didn't feel a friendship connection between the three of them at all. It was really awkward, compared to the first four movies where they were thick as thieves. But then again, there were a lot more people that Harry had to interact with, so that probably outbalanced the whole thing.

Anyway, I love the film and I totally agree that most of the actors are really starting to feel their characters. Voldemort didn't feel like Ralph Fiennes as Voldemort, but more like Voldemort himself.

I really missed Lupin though. He's been my favorite HP character from the start and he was barely in this movie. They could have at least put him in the rescue scene instead of Mad-Eye! Mad-Eye isn't even important in book 5!
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Old 07-12-2007, 03:14 AM   #83
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Richard Harris is perfect for Dumbledore.

Gambon doesn't even come close, especially in that GoF scene where he shakes up Harry.
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Old 07-12-2007, 09:08 AM   #84
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Originally posted by LemonMacPhisto

If Alec Guinness were still alive, he'd be the perfect Dumbledore, too.


Death sucks.
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Old 07-12-2007, 09:20 AM   #85
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Originally posted by Utoo


True---I'd forgotten that. I still wonder, though, if they may come into play somehow.
Yeah, they still could come into play somehow. Come to think of it, it's not like he can't magically fix it.

Quote:
Originally posted by Utoo
In the movie, she says something along the lines of "Sorry about your godfather..."......and a bit later, something like, "The things we lose always seem to come back to us in the end, just not in the way we expect them," and it pans to a shot of her shoes hanging from the ceiling. The way they scripted that bit of the conversation, it seemed to be a pretty heavy metaphor for Sirius. Somehow, the lost Sirius will come back to Harry, but not in the way Harry expects. Perhaps as a ghost (as he seems to turn into a ghost in the film instead of falling behind the curtain)?
Hmm. Interesting! You could be right. I still haven't seen the film, though.

Quote:
Originally posted by Utoo 2). I am deathly afraid that Ron and Hermione are going to die. I had never really put any support into this theory in the past, but now I'm worried. In the book when Voldemort possesses Harry, Harry thinks of the love of his parents & Voldie leaves him. In the movie, Harry thinks of his friends. He tells Voldemort how he pities him because he'll never know friendship and love. Voldemort leaves him & says the "You will lose everything" line. JKR originally said she was killing two people in the 7th book; more recently, I've heard her say she's killing three. The placement of all the friend stuff and the "lose everything" line in the film makes me worry that Harry will indeed lose Ron & Hermione. I still don't really buy it----I still say it's going to be Voldemort plus any of Wormtail/Snape/Hagrid/Harry/Fred or George/anyone else , but I'm a little more worried than I had been...... [/B]
Can't cope.
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Old 07-12-2007, 09:26 AM   #86
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Originally posted by PlaTheGreat


To be honest, I really enjoyed Harris for the innocent books when he was a sweet loving old man who just had wise words for Harry.
I'm glad to see someone more...um, active, as Dumbledore now with all the battles and stuff. He's not whimsical in the books anymore and in this movie he really shows that he's the baddest muthafucka on the planet. When he appeared in the battle scene I totally said "OH SHIT, SON!"
I still hear Richard Harris' voice every time I read dialogue involving Dumbledore, though.



It's funny, when I first read the early books, I would picture someone a bit more like Gambon----shorter hair, more energetic---but with all the fun parts added in. There was actually a professor on campus that I was using as an image. When the movies came out, I was initially disappointed with Harris' Dumbledore----he seemed to overly emphasize Dumbledore's age, making him speak so slowly, move slowly, and just not be as exciting and fun as I'd always imagined him. When Gambon took over, I was excited to see some energy injected into the character.

Now, however, and mainly because of the aforementioned scene in Goblet where he rushes at Harry, I actually picture Richard Harris whenever I read Dumbledore. I picture him for both the original, fun stories, and for the serious, kick-ass Dumbledore that is in books 5 & 6. However, if Harris were still alive and playing the role, he'd have to jumpstart his energy level in order to come close to the Dumbledore of recent books. He's a great actor, but from the way he played them in 1 & 2, I just don't see that happening.

In Gambon's defense, I think that some of the negative stuff from the movies is due to the directors & not him. In Azkaban, slapping Ron's busted leg----that's just stupid. Not likely an actor's decision, but either a director's or a screenwriter's. In Goblet---with the over-the-top pace and energy of the rest of the movie (which the Mike Newell practically prided himself on), I really believe that Gambon was directed to practically attack Harry in that scene----just as Emma Watson was made to be fairly over-the-top for most of HP4, as well.
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Old 07-12-2007, 01:52 PM   #87
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First, a note to Teta - I have been posting in this thread for weeks, partially because while I obsessively read Leaky Lounge for theories and info and to provoke my own thoughts, the last thing I need is another forum to spend time posting on. This thread has been great for me as a smaller forum in which to discuss HP theories. I saw your thread. I am emotionally drained by the thought of reflecting on what Harry has meant to me growing up (for a while I was his age while I read the books...unfortunately he gains a year every 2 real years while I have aged normally) and I have been planning to put some time into reading your post and responding with my own reflections. However, this thread is a prediction thread, your thread seems more of an emotional thread, and you can hop over to Zoo Station if you want to talk about the movies. Also, I am primarily an FYM poster as well, and well parts of LS can be cliquey (OOC) I have never seen anyone on Interference ignore a poster out of spite or anything else you seem to think was going on. I have simply tabled your post because I wish to give it (and my response) the time and emotional attention I think they deserve, while right now my head is spinning with theories and predictions.

Back to the point.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kiki

anyway......doesnt anyone find it sort of strange that Wormtail and Snape are found together at the same cottage at the beginning of HBP? I've been waiting for someone to bring that up...but it just seems strange to me.

That and....what if maybe Dumbeldore made Fawk's a horcrux. Did I say that already? hmmm...I dont think so....anyway it's just a thought I had. Maybe he really is living through Fawks now.

That Wormtail was with Snape is indeed interesting - it seems that one or the other of them was keeping an eye on the other for Voldemort. Wormtail also has very little public use, like Sirius, so he would have to be mostly hidden somewhere.

Dumbledore would never make a horcrux. They are evil, involve a murder (tearing the soul) and further, rip the soul in pieces. His soul was clearly intact. However, I wouldn't rule out him either living through Fawkes or turning into a phoenix at the end of the burial scene - there's a theory out there that in Harry's world, Phoenixes are born of great wizards when they die (that is why you can't domesticate them...except Dumbledore did with Fawkes, so then there are theories about Fawkes being Merlin and DD beint a descendant, etc.). Then there's the theory that Fawkes is the animagi form of Aberforth (also thought to be an animagi goat or dragon). Not sure what will happen, I tend to think very few theories will come true when they get this specific because Jo is a master of surprises that make perfect sense but you never saw them coming. We can figure out what definately won't happen but I don't think anyone will pin down what will.

However, I believe 1) Dumbledore is dead but not gone, enabling him to support Harry but making Harry the leader and decision maker (plus we still need to learn things from DD - how did he destroy the ring?) 2) Phoenixes (Fawkes, that one at the funeral) have something to do with it 3) Aberforth is the new character we've seen but not properly met that Jo has referenced in interviews will play a role in DH.

Quote:
Originally posted by shika
After watching Film 5 yesterday and seeing the scene towards the end where Voldermort enters Harry's body and speaks through him (spooky green eyes and all), Iwas thinking that Book 7 will have that happen again to a much larger extent, and then Harry's 'followers' will have to face the prospect of having to destroy Voldermort by killing Harry as well.... yikes....

Undoubtedly there is a connection between Harry and Neville - I like the idea that the prediction is really about Neville and that Harry is kind of like a 'decoy' (and a pretty damn good one at that!) for Neville to assume the true prophecy.

Perhaps Harry's scar is a Horcrux??? Apparently the very last word in Book 7 is "scar" ....
I don't think Harry's followers will have to kill Harry - if Harry dies, in true great literary form, it will be self-sacrifice. However I am still holding out on Harry surviving the whole thing. I don't believe he is a Horcrux, but it is possible his scar is, however that would require it being an unintentional horcrux (Voldemort make a living being he had no control over a horcrux? and then continually try and kill him?) which I don't think is possible or if Harry had been a horcrux I like the idea that the gleam of triumph in DD's eyes at the end of 4 was because Voldie had cashed in the horcrux by using Harry's blood. Then there is Kieth Olberman's theory that Harry's scar is a horcrux and Snape will tell him how to destroy it without killing himself - but it involves giving up his magical abilities. Interesting to ponder, strong in a litterary sense, but I don't like it. Again, I think JK will surprise us all, predictions are fun for me because they are entertaining and help me ponder the details so that when I read the book I will catch all the little references and hints.

The last word has been changed. It was scar for years and now scar is only close to the last word. I wonder if this has something to do with the reprieve/change in who lives and dies...we shall see.

As for Neville, I agree with DD that it could have been either for that first year of their lives, but as soon as Voldemort attacked Harry he chose his enemy, marked Harry as the one who the prophesy was about.


Quote:
Originally posted by Utoo

2). I am deathly afraid that Ron and Hermione are going to die. I had never really put any support into this theory in the past, but now I'm worried. In the book when Voldemort possesses Harry, Harry thinks of the love of his parents & Voldie leaves him. In the movie, Harry thinks of his friends. He tells Voldemort how he pities him because he'll never know friendship and love. Voldemort leaves him & says the "You will lose everything" line. JKR originally said she was killing two people in the 7th book; more recently, I've heard her say she's killing three. The placement of all the friend stuff and the "lose everything" line in the film makes me worry that Harry will indeed lose Ron & Hermione. I still don't really buy it----I still say it's going to be Voldemort plus any of Wormtail/Snape/Hagrid/Harry/Fred or George/anyone else , but I'm a little more worried than I had been......
I think if Ron/Hermione die, it will only be one of them. I am desperately hoping the trio and Ginny come through it, but I don't think it's possible. See below for my thoughts on using the film in analyzing book 7 - that scene was not written by Jo. Still, it's possible one will die, especially using a little bit of literary analysis: Ron represents loyalty, Hermione brains, Harry courage, Ginny love, or whatever, so one or more dying would be some sort of grander message. Loyalty or love because Voldemort doesn't know what it is?

Other stuff...
Did Harry actually break Sirius's mirror? I remember him throwing it in frustration but wizard mirrors, especially ones with special functions like that, might not be as breakable as we'd assume. Did it actually say it shattered or sounded like it? I'm still in the middle of my book 5 reread, I guess I'll know in a few days. No matter what, I think the mirror wasn't just mentioned so Harry could get angry at himself for not using it before the MoM fight, it's got a future role to play, so a little "reparo" would be in order. I also like the theory that Harry mgiht go beyond the veil, what with a JK interview from several years ago stating that in book 7 we'd get as close to death as we could without dying or something like that.

Snape. I don't think he's evil. I think his death was planned with DD. But my very first insticnt on him was that he was neither evil nor good - that he has his own slimey agenda and working with DD/under DD's protection served him well. I also don't buy that he would go this far for love of Lily, whom he insulted terribly and who clearly didn't love him back in any lasting way. (Frankly I think the "they were childhood friends" theory is crap.) I know love is one of JK's central themes but that is just stretching it. There is something else driving him against Voldemort that DD knew about. There is a theory that Voldemort killed Snape's mom and framed his dad, possibly to steal a Ravenclaw artifact, but Snape discovered the truth, and I think something like that is closer to what really happened. A little teenage love, even in a pathetic loathable life like Snape's, would not convincing evidence make. Forever damaging his family, Sawyer-style (Lost reference), would.

JK sobbing: I don't like Hagrid as much as the rest of the world, but she's said that he's one of her absolute favorite characters, so I'm hoping it's his death she was sobbing over for my own emotional sake.

But maybe it's the death of Harry's last remaining parental figure(s), Mrs. Weasley and maybe Arthur too. When I was rereading book 4 I was very touched by the scene in the infirmary after Cedric's death when he gets a motherly hug from her and lets go and cries in her arms. In book 5 Harry is included with the Weasley children when they visit Arthur in the hospital. And we all know (if both survive) he'll marry Ginny. If Mrs. Weasley sacrifices herself for him and/or her kids and/or her future daughter in law that would be enough to make Rowling, a mother herself who identifies with Mrs. Weasley's worst fear, sob and sob. The champagne probably came from finally writing something that had been planned for years. I had another idea about this a few hours ago but it's slipped my mind...I guess if it comes true and I recall it you'll have to take my word for it on an "i-told-you-so."

JK could also have cried for a betrayal scene - again I don't like this theory but it's out there that McGonnagall is a spy and Snape is distracting us from it - people point to her letting Crouch get kissed by the dimentor and a few other things, I was just reading last night the scene where she reacts to Harry telling his vision with the snake and now am thinking that him realizing he's connected to Harry could be because McGonnagall has told him. I highly doubt it's McGonnagall, but some sort of betrayal scene, especially one leading to death of a beloved character, could be heart wrenching.

The movie - I don't watch them anymore, I might some day when I've read the whole series through enough times not to have the movies interfere with my canon knowledge and personal vision of the books. I don't think you can take many things in the movies to be forshadowing 7 - the people making the movies have no idea what's going to happen and only once has Jo said that they unintentionally put something forshadowing in a film - that was PoA, which I haven't seen, but I recall that when HBP came out that was what it had forshadowed. JK tells them just enough that they aren't going to be in trouble in the future - no, you can't eliminate this character, hey, maybe save that prop (the locket?)....other than that the movies are not canon, only the books and interviews she has given, and any variations from the books are poetic licence/convenience but are not done by anyone with knowledge of the final book.


I'm jealous you Aussies get it at 9am - not just because it's 5 hours before me (same as the Brits) but because you will be awake when you read it! I'm going at midnight to get my book and planning to read straight through (I did book 6 in 8 hours so I'll be done by noon), but it would be better if I'd had some sleep.
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Old 07-12-2007, 01:53 PM   #88
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as long as Hermione appears naked or Harry dies, I will go see that last movie...

and cheer
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Old 07-12-2007, 04:26 PM   #89
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I have this crazy idea in my head that Harry and Voldemort will cancel each other out in the end
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Old 07-12-2007, 05:31 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally posted by Utoo





It's funny, when I first read the early books, I would picture someone a bit more like Gambon----shorter hair, more energetic---but with all the fun parts added in. There was actually a professor on campus that I was using as an image. When the movies came out, I was initially disappointed with Harris' Dumbledore----he seemed to overly emphasize Dumbledore's age, making him speak so slowly, move slowly, and just not be as exciting and fun as I'd always imagined him. When Gambon took over, I was excited to see some energy injected into the character.

Now, however, and mainly because of the aforementioned scene in Goblet where he rushes at Harry, I actually picture Richard Harris whenever I read Dumbledore. I picture him for both the original, fun stories, and for the serious, kick-ass Dumbledore that is in books 5 & 6. However, if Harris were still alive and playing the role, he'd have to jumpstart his energy level in order to come close to the Dumbledore of recent books. He's a great actor, but from the way he played them in 1 & 2, I just don't see that happening.

In Gambon's defense, I think that some of the negative stuff from the movies is due to the directors & not him. In Azkaban, slapping Ron's busted leg----that's just stupid. Not likely an actor's decision, but either a director's or a screenwriter's. In Goblet---with the over-the-top pace and energy of the rest of the movie (which the Mike Newell practically prided himself on), I really believe that Gambon was directed to practically attack Harry in that scene----just as Emma Watson was made to be fairly over-the-top for most of HP4, as well.
That makes a lot of sense.

I pictured Dumbledore as the wise, old wizard / Obi-Wan-type. More of an mentor to Harry in the same way Obi-Wan was for Luke, but when the time came, he could kick ass (fight Darth or in DoubleD's case, fight wizards.)

Harris' Dumbledore wouldn't have been able to work in HP3 or HP4, then again, Gambon's wouldn't work for HP1 or HP2.

It has to do with him being such a multi-faceted character in the books that he can't completely be fleshed out in the movies. It's too bad, because I had real high hopes for Movie Dumbledore.

I hope they handle HP6 well on the Dumbledore front, if they don't, the movie will crumble.
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