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Old 06-29-2007, 09:18 AM   #46
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I think that Pettigrew's silver hand may play some part, but with Fenrir Greyback rather than Lupin. I'm quite convinced that Lupin will not die, if only because I think that surely -someone- from Harry's parents' generation will get a happy ending - Lily and James are dead; Sirius is dead; Pettigrew and Snape are not likely to live happily ever after.

I doubt that Lupin will step up to be a replacement godfather in Harry's life. Partly because of Lupin's own kind-but-distant personality; partly because I think that, at this point, JKR deliberately took Harry to a place where he must stand on his own without any father figure to fall back on.
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Old 06-29-2007, 09:56 AM   #47
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I hadn't thought about Greyback before. I completely forgot about him actually. It's a good thing I'm rereading the series.

Yeah, I knew that if Lupin were to get a bigger role in Harry's life he would have done so in book six. He's out of the picture now.
Speaking of father figures, Harry still has Hagrid, but he's always been rumored to be one of the guys that gets offed.
And then there's the Weasley surrogate family. Was it Bill that gets bitten by a werewolf? Or something equally bad?
I guess I should stay out of this thread until I've had a book six refresher course. I haven't read it since it came out.
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Old 06-29-2007, 12:56 PM   #48
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Originally posted by PlaTheGreat




Did you ever read Order of the Phoenix???????????????????

as soon as I read what you wrote...yeah it hit me. Duh. Thanks for clearing that up though! I had completely forgotten about that, although I am re-reading The Order right now.....duh....
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Old 06-30-2007, 05:14 PM   #49
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I love reading all your theories. I just finished reading HBP this morning. I can't wait for the next book! I'm debating whether or not to show up at the store at midnight to pickup my copy.

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Originally posted by PlaTheGreat
Was it Bill that gets bitten by a werewolf? Or something equally bad?
I guess I should stay out of this thread until I've had a book six refresher course. I haven't read it since it came out.
Yeah, his face was mauled. While he was in the hospital wing, they mentioned that he might have werewolf characteristics, but wouldn't be fully a warewolf since it wasn't the full moon at the time it happened.

I thought as I was reading it that Fleur would dump him after he was injured, but it looks like they will still be getting married.
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Old 06-30-2007, 05:36 PM   #50
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Old 06-30-2007, 07:51 PM   #51
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Last week a guy claimed to have hacked the publisher's website and read the ending. His spoiler is here, if you believe it:

http://seclists.org/misc/harrypotterspoilers.html

For those who don't want to know, don't read. But it's there if you want to. I'm not going to post what it says just in case it is true and you don't want to know.
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Old 07-01-2007, 11:59 AM   #52
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Originally posted by PlaTheGreat

Speaking of father figures, Harry still has Hagrid, but he's always been rumored to be one of the guys that gets offed.

I'm kind of surprised that Hagrid's made it this far. I love him, but he fit in so much better when the books were still fun and games. Ever since they took the more serious tone in Goblet, I've expected him to die in each book.
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Old 07-05-2007, 11:05 AM   #53
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So I started reading book 6 yesterday and I ran across some things I've completely forgotten. For example, Narcissa visiting Snape with Bellatrix in tow and begging for him to save Draco's life if he should fail.
So it can be presumed that Voldemort knew exactly when Dumbledore would die and that Draco must be the one to do it. It sounded a lot like Voldemort was listening to a prophecy and perhaps Dumbledore heard it too (if you believed that he had been asking Snape to kill him from long before) and was directly trying to intervene with the prophecy.
I don't know, I just found the whole conversation at Snape's house to be really fishy. Bellatrix felt very wary about trusting Snape on anything, even though he said that he couldn't have lied to Voldemort's face because he'd know.
(Yet who was the master of Occulemens (sp) in book 5 )
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Old 07-05-2007, 12:37 PM   #54
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Originally posted by Saracene
My predictions:

Harry - will not die in the final battle with Voldemort but I can see JKR write in his (natural) death in the epilogue. I also think that Harry is not the Horcrux and neither is his scar. Harry will end up with Ginny in the end.



I agree that Harry will not die, and I think Voldemort will. The final chapter/sentence was planned out and written for ages, so I don't think there's an epilogue that shows a natural death. Maybe an epilogue that shows future lives, and how they are "after," but I don't see the point of showing Harry dying. Just after she finished she said she gave somebody a "reprieve" - maybe one of the trio, or Ginny? Hagrid? Fred or George? (I think one/some Weasleys have to die, and as Ron is closer to the center and Ginny is meant to marry Harry to give him a family, it might be one of them.) Who knows. I have to believe the trio will be intact and Harry will end up with Ginny. After all that, they deserve a bit of goodness, but then in real life and in war, that's not how it works, so I'm prepared to be devastated.

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Dumbledore - dead but not out of the picture. I think that Harry will get to speak to him at some point, although I'm not sure how.
...
This is just a hunch but I think that Dumbledore's "he can't kill you if you're already dead" may refer to Dumbledore himself not being truly alive when Snape AK'd him. Which could be either because of the potion he'd drunk in the caves, or the fact that the Horcrux injury that left his hand blackened was much, much more serious than he let anyone bar Snape know, and left him living on a borrowed time.
I agree that he is dead but will still be involved. The "he can't kill you" line was directed at Malfoy though, and it was before the potion (though after the hand). It was an offer to Malfoy, so I don't think it directly has to do with DD's physical status at the time of Snape's killing him, but it might be a clue into something going on that isn't as it seems. I've read some theories on the fan sites about Dumbeldore being an animagi of Fawkes - and (I only just started thinking about this halfway through my re-read, so I can't be certain in the first 3 books but I'll look out for it) I don't think we've ever actually seen Fawkes and Dumbeldore together. So maybe he "died" but he's really regenerative like a Phoenix? But then, I think that's too much to hope for.

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Horcruxes - I think that Voldemort's snake, Nagini, is NOT a Horcrux and that the last Horcrux will turn out to be something entirely different and unexpected. I also wonder whether Luna's mother's death was Horcrux-related somehow.

R.A.B. is Regulus Black, Sirius' long-dead brother. The Slytherin locket which he retrieved from the cave is now with Kreacher, who might have even gone to the cave with Regulus.
I agree, Nagini has free will and is an animal with a lifespan - not a Horcrux. We have the ring and the diary, gone, so there are 4 more. The locket, the cup, and something of Ravenclaw's and Gryffindor's (but not the sword or the hat, JKR has pretty much ruled them out and they've been supervised and are not enough of a surprise). That's the popular thought - with some uncertainty on Gryffindor's item, both because we don't know of any other relics and the ones we know of are safe, and my personal injection into this - the age old animosity between Slytherins and Gryffindors, Godric being a defender of muggles from the start, etc. may have turned Voldemort off of using something of Gryffindor's, leaving more of a surprise. There's also the possibility that after he heard of the diary being destroyed, he created a new Horcrux (it would have to be some time after his rise at the end of book 4, prior to that he wasn't strong enough to split his soul). Harry would have 5, and not 4, to destroy before killing Voldemort, which could lead to a confrontation in which Harry thought he'd gotten them all, tried to kill Voldemort, reduced him drastically (he would survive like 16 years ago, but with fewer pieces of his soul left) and has to go find the last replacement Horcrux before re-finding Voldemort and finishing him off.

As for the locket, I agree it was Regalus (it's supposed to be obvious, at least to Voldemort, whom RAB wanted to be known to) and that Kreacher helped and it was in the house. The problem is going to be verifying that it was destroyed and not just taken, because I think Mundungus Fletcher inadvertantly made off with it. Remember, Harry caught him with a suitcase full of stuff he'd been looting from Sirius/Harry's house? I don't think that was the first suitcase, either... Also, because we know Voldemort killed Regalus, it's possible Voldemort knows the locket too was destroyed, in which case it's another candidate for a replacement Horcrux. Though another possibility is that it was Borgin or Burke, because Voldemort worked for the store but they couldn't have been very happy when they discovered he was stealing certain important, valuable dark items for himself. And while they trade in dark items and are shady guys, maybe one of them didn't support dark magic taking over to the extreme.

Quote:
Snape - is definitely on the good side and did what he did in the last book on Dumbledore's own request. I think also that Snape had feelings for Harry's mother back in the day, mostly likely involving unrequited, unexpressed love, and that these feelings played a crucial part in his turn to the good when he realised that Voldemort was going after Harry's parents. I think that Snape was the unnamed person briefly mentioned in the third book who warned Dumbledore about danger to Potters. He will most probably die in the end (but not before Harry forgives him) and I have a weird hunch that he might save Ginny at some point.
I agree with most of this. We will see some sort of evidence in book 7 that is what made DD believe Snape was good. There is always a huge deal made about Lily's and Harry's green eyes. Some people say it is because Snape loved Lily and Harry's eyes remind him of her, but I think (much as love plays a big role in the novels) this isn't enough to warrant the number of times those eyes have come up. There's something else going on with that repeated mention, I just have no idea what. Now that Godric has been revealed as Wizard of the MOnth on JKR.com and has red hair and green eyes, the boards are aflutter with talk about Lily being descended from Godric and Harry being the heir. I like a common response to this (I can't claim it as my own) - one, lineage is something JKR keeps telling us doesn't matter, it only matters to the villain and some other Slytherins, so while the Slytherin line has come down to one person, Gryffindors and probably the other two founders had many descendants and half wizarding Britain (and plenty of Muggles due to the number of squibs that might happen over generations) is related to them. (The Weasleys also have those features). Anyway, those green eyes, eh?

Quote:
Draco will not magically turn into a better person but will still end up doing something brave or admirable.

Pettigrew will be eaten by Crookshanks while in rat form... ideally,
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Old 07-05-2007, 12:47 PM   #55
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Originally posted by PlaTheGreat
What about my favorite character, Lupin?

I remember this being brought up after book 4, but isn't it a strange coincidence that Voldemort gives Pettigrew a silver hand? And silver bullets through the heart are the only thing that are capable of killing a werewolf.
For some reason I get the impression that Lupin ends up with Tonks, only to die later on at the hand (literally) of Pettigrew.

But of course I want Lupin to live.
I was really hoping that in HBP he would be more friendly toward Harry, acting as a replacement godfather for Sirius. I guess he didn't want to endanger him or something, but it would have been nice if Lupin stepped up to the plate and took a bigger role in Harry's life.
I love Lupin, I just finished my book 3 reread and was reminded of this. I don't think Pettigrew will kill anyone major (Lupin included). He's got that life debt to Harry that is bound to come up in some way. I too kept hoping Lupin would step up, he was very nice in book 3, but I think he's super stressed with the werewolves business. There's a very very silly theory floating around that the silver hand is a horcrux (perhaps the diary replacement) and Pettigrew will help Harry get it as part of the life debt, but there's no way in hell Voldemort would give someone he has called incompetent and not as loyal as others (beginning of GoF) such an item, that's just not enough protection for a piece of his soul. I wouldn't rule out Pettigrew somehow helping Harry find a Horcrux, or stepping in front of a killing curse from Voldemort, to repay that debt. Or killing Fenrir before he harms Harry or another important character.

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So I started reading book 6 yesterday and I ran across some things I've completely forgotten. For example, Narcissa visiting Snape with Bellatrix in tow and begging for him to save Draco's life if he should fail.
So it can be presumed that Voldemort knew exactly when Dumbledore would die and that Draco must be the one to do it. It sounded a lot like Voldemort was listening to a prophecy and perhaps Dumbledore heard it too (if you believed that he had been asking Snape to kill him from long before) and was directly trying to intervene with the prophecy.
OK, I think the signifigance of this is that Draco was going to fail, and Snape did make that deal with Narcissa, but I think Snape didn't quite know what he was promising to do (as dangerous as that is). He didn't know what Draco had been tasked with until after the promise, and went to DD and told him this happened, and that is part of why DD was so keen on having Snape kill him - if he didn't, Snape would die, and DD thought the battle would be better off with Snape alive and him not (or is he really alive.....?). What I don't udnerstand is why he didn't do something (or maybe we just don't know yet) to reassure other members of the Order that Snape was still trustworthy - how useful can he be if nobody trusts his info because all they know is he killed DD?

I don't understand this theory you have about a prophecy and Voldemorte knowing when/how DD would die. Care to elaborate?
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Old 07-05-2007, 12:51 PM   #56
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I've read some theories on the fan sites about Dumbeldore being an animagi of Fawkes - and (I only just started thinking about this halfway through my re-read, so I can't be certain in the first 3 books but I'll look out for it) I don't think we've ever actually seen Fawkes and Dumbeldore together. So maybe he "died" but he's really regenerative like a Phoenix? But then, I think that's too much to hope for.
I was in this camp for a long time too. I don't think he is Fawkes because they have been together in multiple scenes all over the books (book 2 after the Chamber of Secrets battle, book 5, Dumbledore grabs the tail of Fawkes and vanishes from the room).
Something has to be said about the way Dumbledore is killed, too. Every time the Avada Kedavra is used, the victim falls over, dead. Dumbledore is described as being hit, then flying up in the air (almost suspended) and then moving backward over the rooftop to the ground below. If he was already cowering down, wouldn't he have just flopped over?
If Dumbledore isn't dead, then it's highly likely that Snape merely stunned him and he's waiting in the white tomb to be awakened again.

I just can't accept the fact that Snape is evil, basically.
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Old 07-05-2007, 01:00 PM   #57
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I was in this camp for a long time too. I don't think he is Fawkes because they have been together in multiple scenes all over the books (book 2 after the Chamber of Secrets battle, book 5, Dumbledore grabs the tail of Fawkes and vanishes from the room).
Something has to be said about the way Dumbledore is killed, too. Every time the Avada Kedavra is used, the victim falls over, dead. Dumbledore is described as being hit, then flying up in the air (almost suspended) and then moving backward over the rooftop to the ground below. If he was already cowering down, wouldn't he have just flopped over?
If Dumbledore isn't dead, then it's highly likely that Snape merely stunned him and he's waiting in the white tomb to be awakened again.

I just can't accept the fact that Snape is evil, basically.
OK, that clears up my question as to whether they'd been seen together. Some fanatics of that theory might try to find a work-around, but I think I'll put it to bed with a caveat of jumping on the "I was right" bandwagon if it plays out somehow in book 7. As for the flying up in the air bit, I agree, that is very, very, very suspicious. A lot of people have pointed out that in book 6 we start to hear a lot about nonverbal spells - it's possible that good wizards can say one spell and actually nonverbally perform a different one, if it's the intention that matters. I'm firmly in the "DD is not gone from the series" camp (and his portrait talking to another one doesn't count) and shakily in the "he's dead" camp because I do believe that from a litterary point of view JKR needed to set Harry off on his own for the last book, hence the deaths of Sirius and DD. They will be available for guidance and will play a role in the books, but not at all the times when Harry needs them.

Just 15 days!!!!!!

Oh, and I think Snape could have killed DD and still nto been evil, that's how I fall if I believe DD is dead. As I've explained above.
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Old 07-07-2007, 07:32 AM   #58
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Originally posted by PlaTheGreat
Something has to be said about the way Dumbledore is killed, too. Every time the Avada Kedavra is used, the victim falls over, dead. Dumbledore is described as being hit, then flying up in the air (almost suspended) and then moving backward over the rooftop to the ground below. If he was already cowering down, wouldn't he have just flopped over?
I've read a lot of theories about this - that it could have been a slightly botched Avada Kedavra, or that Snape in fact cast a completely different spell in his mind and only shouted "Avada Kedavra" for show. But I think it's possible that JKR simply took an artistic licence with this particular AK since having DD fall down to the ground has a lot more dramatic power than if he just fell over by the tower wall.
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Old 07-11-2007, 09:48 AM   #59
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Oh no, JK does not take artistic license with things like that, she plots and plans and is very very intentional. It means something. Whether it's the nonverbal thing (evidence for this being its proliferation in lessons throughout the book) or Dumbledore did it himself or because he was already dying/dead from either the potion or (this one's really out there) the unbreakable vow that he took to kill himself while he was disguised as Snape in Spinner's End....

Anyway, it's important, and we'll find out why in 10 days!!

Side note as this is probably full of a more international crowd - I read that it comes out at 9am in Australia, which is the same as midnight in London. But Germany's releasing it at midnight too (an hour earlier than London) and the US has to wait for 5 hours or even 8 for those unluck west coasters. Is this correct? I don't like it. They should have made it simultaneous. I plan to avoid the internet for those 5-6 hours before I can buy it, but still, bad idea.
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Old 07-11-2007, 10:00 AM   #60
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I heard from a little birdie that there will be a specially formed Wizard Special Service Unit and that Draco will be part of it....he turns good!
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