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Old 07-31-2007, 08:13 AM   #226
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Quote:
Originally posted by LemonMacPhisto

Kingsley Shacklebolt is probably the biggest badass in the entire series, does he ever mess up? Answer: no.
Damn it, I'd always imagined this guy to be SAMUEL L. JACKSON! Not whoever plays him in the movies.

"Get that snake off my Hogwarts!"
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Old 08-01-2007, 01:23 AM   #227
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LOL.....I am thinking that Kingsley was already dressed like a MOM in Film 5....those sparkly sky-blue robes spoke POWER TO THE PEOPLE!! All he had to do was walk into the room and he was the scariest mutha down, outside of Dumbledore and a Death Eater. "You gotta admit....Dumbledore's got style." That line got a huge laugh in the theater.....

Wow, it's quiet on the board today! Maybe everyone's racing to finish or re-read the book like me...I'm currently up to the 2nd half of CHapter 19, where I read before....now I have to get through all the chapters between "The Silver Doe' and "The Sacking of Severus Snape", that's the only parts I haven't read....
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Old 08-01-2007, 01:37 AM   #228
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Quote:
Originally posted by major_panic


Damn it, I'd always imagined this guy to be SAMUEL L. JACKSON! Not whoever plays him in the movies.

"Get that snake off my Hogwarts!"
I had the exact same conversation with a friend of mine.

How amazing would that be though?
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Old 08-01-2007, 11:35 AM   #229
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Originally posted by Dalton

The difference lies in the authors priorities in my opinion. JKR is/was more concerned with her characters than she is/was with proving a point. Both the stories and the philosophies in her books served to strengthen and explain her characters. With Tolkien and Lewis the characters and the story served to explain and strengthen their points.
I totally agree! There's a thread on Leaky Lounge where Oscar Wilde's quote came up - something about "books are not moral or immoral, only well written or poorly written." This doesn't meant hat we can't discuss morality with books as a reference frame, or use the books to come up with a message or the author's moral views or discuss whether different characters and events are moral (using the books as a reference frame again). That's what you do with a good book. However, the most enjoyable books, and the ones over which this type of discussion is most interesting, are not the books that push philosophy first, that wear their authors' morals so clearly on the book sleeve that there is nothing to discuss. These books are way too didactic to the point that not only is discussion boring, but reading them might not be so fun - like attending a sermon. I'm thinking Chronicles of Narnia here. Those are the books where Oscar Wilde's quote is perhaps wrong - they are indeed moral (or immoral) books, and that is precisely why they are poorly written.

Quote:
Originally posted by Teta040

Varitek, I see you have relanteda bit on Snape. Can we come to a truce? Jo pretty much pointed to my line of thinking in the Dateline NBC interview today...someone can post the link....and you're from MA? Ok, I excuse your political ignorance...
As for the interview quote, I think Snape got redemption for Harry, and forgiveness from Harry. But as Jo says, he never stops being a horrible person through and through. So - does he deserve redemption? Depends on your personal morals to a large extent. I argue no. Though there are a few things in the story that indicate that Snape's years on the good side had erradicated his tendency towards the dark arts and death eaters.

A question I've been mulling over recently - I was wondering how Harryy survived under DD's explanation - that Voldemort taking Harry's blood made Lily's protection tie Harry to the world. Why did this last beyond Harry's 17th? Did Harry survive (or survive in part) because he owned the deathly hallows? (Which would make DD wrong about why Harry survived.) Can the Deathly Hallows actually keep someone from dying, given that that is just a myth and we know the items aren't really as powerful as they are described as in the myth? (Moody can see through Harry's cloak and possibly cats and DD, the wand isn't unbeatable, the death stone doesn't really bring people back)

Does anyone have an answer to my Hagrid movement problem? I have gotten almost to the point of drawing a diagram of the damn scene, my best theory is that Harry didn't move like he should have because the motorcycle was already dying, but Hagrid still shouldn't have been right below.

On Teddy and Harry's responsibility - I think Harry was a great Godfather, but Teddy's grandmother still raised him. However, my mom thought it was a dead giveaway that Harry wasn't going to die when he didn't make an arrangement for Teddy to get his money or have another godfather or something before he went into the forrest. She though if Jo actually was about to kill Harry, Teddy would have been addressed there.

Tuwie - Voldemort had no idea that Harry was the master of the wand. He didn't know that Draco had become the master because he didn't know Draco had disarmed DD. Draco didn't know he had become the master, nor did Snape, because they didn't know DD had the wand. Harry only figured the whole thing out in the very end, after or maybe during King's Cross, but even he didn't predict the rebounding Avada Kedavra, he just had a huge degree of confidence about fighting Voldemort after King's Cross.


By the way, this quote is really interesting:
Quote:
J.K. Rowling: Well, it is a political metaphor. But … I didn't sit down and think, "I want to recreate Nazi Germany," in the-- in the wizarding world. Because-- although there are-- quite consciously overtones of Nazi Germany, there are also associations with other political situations. So I can't really single one out.
I haven't had the chance to wade through Jo's chat transcript yet (it's 18 pgs copied into Word) but I'll post about that when I do. I'm super excited to read it!!

Teta - got back into the office today. The agency bought the whole office breakfast too.
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Old 08-01-2007, 12:58 PM   #230
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OK I'm reading some of the chat - I'm now confused about Ron's career. On the Today Show, she said

Quote:
Harry and Ron utterly revolutionized the Auror Department in-- at the Ministry of Magic. So they-- I mean, they are now the consummate-- they are experts. It doesn't matter how old they are or what else they've done.So Harry and Ron lead the way in recreating the new Auror Department.
But in the chat she says

Quote:
J.K. Rowling: Ron joined George at Weasleys’ Wizarding Wheezes, which became an enormous money-spinner.....J.K. Rowling: Well, I don’t think that George would ever get over losing Fred, which makes me feel so sad. However, he names his first child and son Fred, and he goes on to have a very successful career, helped by good old Ron.
So....does Ron work with George, or as an Auror? Or does he take some time to make some money and then join Harry when Harry becomes department head and requests that Ron join him?


I'm kind of sad that Ginny just ends up a housewife/Quidditch correspondant and that there's no mention of Harry's seeker career - I guess he stuck with the important stuff after all, but the poor kid really deserved a few years of a good fun break, and he does fly as well as Krum after all!
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Old 08-01-2007, 01:05 PM   #231
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Another contradiction between the chat and the Today show - this one I find very interesting, like Jo is still making up her mind:

chat 7/30:

Quote:
J.K. Rowling: Yes, I do; though a very flawed hero. An anti-hero, perhaps. He is not a particularly likeable man in many ways. He remains rather cruel, a bully, riddled with bitterness and insecurity – and yet he loved, and showed loyalty to that love

J.K. Rowling: and, ultimately, laid down his life because of it. That’s pretty heroic!
today show 7/26 and 27:

Quote:
MV: Was Snape always intended to be a hero?

JKR: [sharp intake of breath] Is he a hero? You see I don't see him really as a hero.

MV: Really?

JKR: Yeh. He's spiteful. He's a bully. All these things are still true of Snape, even at the end of this book. But, was he brave? Yes, immensely.

Greta, 8: If Snape didn't love Lily, would he have still tried to protect Harry?

JKR: No. He Definitely wouldn't have done. He wouldn't have been remotely interested in what happened to this boy.

(next day)

J.K. Rowling: Snape is a complicated man. He's bitter. He's … spiteful. He's a bully. All these things are still true of Snape, even at the end of this book. But was he brave? Yes, immensely.

Was he capable of love? Very definitely. So he's-- he's a very-- he was a flawed human being, like all of us.

Harry forgives him--- as we know, from the epilogue, Harry-- Harry really sees the good in Snape ultimately. I wanted there to be redemption and I wanted there to be forgiveness. And Harry forgives, even knowing that until the end Snape loathed him unjustifiably. it's totally, totally unfair that he loathes him so much but anyway.
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Old 08-01-2007, 09:36 PM   #232
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So George did name his kid Fred. I thought she'd do that. Good.
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Old 08-01-2007, 11:42 PM   #233
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She said that laying down his life for the memory of the woman he loved was heroic, not that he was a hero.
She even said he was an anti-hero.

You can do heroic things and still not be a hero.
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Old 08-02-2007, 02:05 AM   #234
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I feel profoundly let down by this novel. Bland, poorly written (though they've none of them been well-written, by any stretch of the imagination), unsettlingly predictable, and just...I dunno...time-wasting? Lots of dragging of feet, in this one, and very, very, very little payoff, once the dust settles.

I love the books, on the whole, but apart from the first novel (which I don't actually enjoy, too much), I feel that Deathly Hallows is without a doubt the weakest of the bunch. It's hardly the worst book I've read even recently, but it's...yeah. Nothing special, and at times pretty bad.

I wish I had access to all my other books, here in Japan, but I don't. I'd love to be able to go back and read books two through four, to wash this bad taste outta my mouth...
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Old 08-02-2007, 02:17 AM   #235
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Varitek, here I can only quote the B-Man:

"Right in the middle of a contradiction, that's where I want to be."

(And glad your office situation is working out. Your situation was bad enough, now those poor people in Minn.-St Paul!??! with the bridge? That bridge was only 40 yrs old! I won't even begin to rant on the starving of funds for..um..DOMESTIC purposes at the moment--not the right thread anyway...God help those poor folks)

Anyway, I seem to remember a fan meet and greet she had a couple of yrs ago and she was talking about Snape, and someone asked about "the redemption of Snape." She was taken aback and said "the redemption of Snape?!" and couldn't speak for a moment or two....

I'm two-thirds of the way through the book now, I've finsihed all the parts I haven't before and and am re-reading the 2nd half. HEARTBREAKING...All I can say is, Warner Brothers has their work cut out for them indeed.

Will be back for more in-depth stuff soon. Wonderful on how the "three brothers" are Dumbledore, Snape, and Harry....this "book within a book" thing is wonderful. Like in LOTR and Alice, etc.
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Old 08-02-2007, 07:12 AM   #236
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Yes, it's interesting how JKR herself obviously feels conflicted about Snape.

I always thought that Harry will end up forgiving Snape - especially when JKR wrote in the fifth book that Harry was *never* going to forgive him. When a writer phrases it in an explicit way like this you just know it's a setup for reversal,
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Old 08-02-2007, 10:23 AM   #237
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Quote:
Originally posted by PlaTheGreat
She said that laying down his life for the memory of the woman he loved was heroic, not that he was a hero.
She even said he was an anti-hero.

You can do heroic things and still not be a hero.
She says "yes I do, though a very flawed hero."

I agree that you can do heroic things and still not be a hero. You can also do things that would be heroic or moral with the proper intentions behind them, but lacking proper intentions, are not. They simply have the same outcome as the heroic or moral path.
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Old 08-02-2007, 10:31 AM   #238
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Quote:
Originally posted by If you shout...
I feel profoundly let down by this novel. Bland, poorly written (though they've none of them been well-written, by any stretch of the imagination), unsettlingly predictable, and just...I dunno...time-wasting? Lots of dragging of feet, in this one, and very, very, very little payoff, once the dust settles.
She isn't the most technically skilled writer, though she has improved over the course of the series. She has always had sort of awkward pacing, and Deathly Hallows was probably most awkward of all, but I think it works in a way - the slow parts of moving around really give you the tedious feeling that existed for Harry and Hermione. Then everything happens at once at the end, as it always does in HP books.

As for predictability, I was somewhat surprised but at the same time unsurprised to see how many fan-generated theories were correct. She laid a foundation of clues over the first six books so of course the stuff makes sense when it happens. And there were plenty of wonderful and interesting unpredicted plot developments - Dumbledore's family history, what the Deathly Hallows actually were vs. the myth of them.

Expectations were so high for this book that some readers were bound to be disapointed. I was at first, because of all the unanswered questions I had at the end, but JKR is getting to those now so I'm much happier. And regardless, I thoroughly enjoyed reading it, had a huge grin on my face at the end of the epilogue, and have already had plenty of interesting discussions using DH as a springboard. It's not supposed to be the Great 21st Century Novel or whatever, it's supposed to be enjoyable and wrap up the series.

Did you have fun reading it? I had a blast, and that's good enough for me. The interesting conversation is a bonus.
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Old 08-02-2007, 11:41 AM   #239
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Quote:
Originally posted by Canadiens1160
SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS










































Deaths:
Burbage pg12
Hedwig pg56
Mad-Eye pg78
Scrimgeour pg159
Wormtail pg471
Dobby pg476
Tonks pg??
Lupin pg??
Fred pg637
Voldemort kills Snape pg656-658
Mrs. Weasley kills Bellatrix Lestrange pg736
Harry kills Voldemort pg744


19 years later (epilogue)
Harry marries Ginny Weasley, they have 3 kids, James, Albus, Lilly.
Ron marries Hermione, they have 2 kids, Hugo and Rose, and adopts Teddy (son of Tonks + Lupin)
Neville becomes a teacher.
































SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS

I just read the epilogue last night. It never said anywhere that Ron and Hermione adopted Teddy Lupin. I even re read it after I'd read it the first time. All it said was that he was kissing Victoire which is a cousin to James, Albus, Lily, Rose, and Hugo. James asked Harry to let Teddy move in to their house with them and Rose or Lily said she hopes that Victoire and Teddy get married.
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Old 08-02-2007, 11:55 AM   #240
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I like her writing style and prefer it to more 'skilled' writers. I like it because she's a storyteller, and that's more important to me than how it's done. Sometimes fancy writing makes things harder for me to understand. I can understand her. I like her that way.
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