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Old 07-28-2007, 12:12 AM   #196
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Originally posted by Butterscotch
I have 2 questions for fans who know more than me:

1. Are the witches and wizards in HP immortal, like in Bewitched, living to be hundreds of years old, or do they just have normal life spans like muggles?

2. Can Voldemort come back? You see many characters come back as ghosts, can he? Or is it like Star Wars, only the good ones can come back as ghosts and the evil ones are destroyed?
1. not immortal, just a longer life span

2. he's dead and he's not coming back. I think its a stretch to say he could come back as a ghost because his soul was destroyed. if his soul is destroyed how could he have a ghost, it would just be nothing. that might not be true, but for someone like voldemort I would guess he'd want a ghost, so thats why I think he can't have one.
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Old 07-28-2007, 07:01 AM   #197
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oh, and Varitek, one last thought. Why does Harry name one of his children--the one who looks just like him, right down to the eyes--after Snape, and tell him the "bravest man" line. JK can go on TV and argue all she wants, but in the book, she has Harry performing the ultimate act of forgiveness, and she can't go back and change her own "contradictory testimony" so to speak. What kind of message is she trying to send?

She has Harry, at least, honoring him in a way, one that he did not merit, and which the outright Snape haters no doubt were aghast at when they read the Epilogue. What was Harry doing? Was he really so soft-minded and niave? After all, he suffered more than any from the abuse of Snape, and if he of all people had the capacitiy to forgive....I too had the initial reaction of "one act of heroism does not cancel out 7 yrs of abuse" , but Jo has not addressed this issue, so I have to think that she, like me, is of conflciting minds.

And Dumbledore's initial reaction of "disgust" was tempered over time, to the point where he later said, "sometimes I think we sort too soon", etc. Does that mean he changed his mind ? Absolutely not. But it shows that Dumbledore at least had come to the conclusion that he was making sicere efforts at redemption...
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Old 07-28-2007, 07:27 AM   #198
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Originally posted by Varitek


He pulled it out of the sorting hat, just as Harry did in the Chamber of Secrets.


That's what I thought. I probably should have waited a week or so before I let someone borrow my book! People are asking me questions and I have to try and answer from memory.
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Old 07-28-2007, 11:33 AM   #199
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Then who's the heir of Gryffindor??
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Old 07-28-2007, 11:35 AM   #200
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Originally posted by I'm Ready


1. not immortal, just a longer life span

2. he's dead and he's not coming back. I think its a stretch to say he could come back as a ghost because his soul was destroyed. if his soul is destroyed how could he have a ghost, it would just be nothing. that might not be true, but for someone like voldemort I would guess he'd want a ghost, so thats why I think he can't have one.
Thank you!
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Old 07-28-2007, 03:46 PM   #201
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oh, and Varitek, one last thought. Why does Harry name one of his children--the one who looks just like him, right down to the eyes--after Snape, and tell him the "bravest man" line. JK can go on TV and argue all she wants, but in the book, she has Harry performing the ultimate act of forgiveness, and she can't go back and change her own "contradictory testimony" so to speak. What kind of message is she trying to send?

She has Harry, at least, honoring him in a way, one that he did not merit, and which the outright Snape haters no doubt were aghast at when they read the Epilogue. What was Harry doing? Was he really so soft-minded and niave? After all, he suffered more than any from the abuse of Snape, and if he of all people had the capacitiy to forgive....I too had the initial reaction of "one act of heroism does not cancel out 7 yrs of abuse" , but Jo has not addressed this issue, so I have to think that she, like me, is of conflciting minds.

I liked that part about the "bravest man I ever knew", despite the otherwise sappy epilogue. To me Snape is the real, underrated hero of the books.
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Old 07-28-2007, 05:51 PM   #202
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Originally posted by Teta040
oh, and Varitek, one last thought. Why does Harry name one of his children--the one who looks just like him, right down to the eyes--after Snape, and tell him the "bravest man" line. JK can go on TV and argue all she wants, but in the book, she has Harry performing the ultimate act of forgiveness, and she can't go back and change her own "contradictory testimony" so to speak. What kind of message is she trying to send?
i think it's cuz Albus Severus was the only one of his 3 kids that had Lily's eyes, so thus it was only fitting for his middle name to be Severus. could you imagine if his eldest son was James Severus? HAHAHAH James and Snape hated eachother.
i think harry has come to understand that even though Snape probably hated harry, it doesnt' erase the fact that all the stuff he did really did truly help Harry to defeat Voldy.
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Old 07-28-2007, 06:50 PM   #203
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I'm kind of torn on Harry going to work for the Ministry of Magic.

On the one hand, I can see that's obviously where his greatest talent lies, as an Auror, and that rather than ignore the system that failed him, he takes a position there to try and change "the system" and does eventually (and rather conveniently and too neatly) change it.

But still I have that nagging irritation that not once in all his dealings with the Ministry, did it ever come through for him (and I'm talking about even BEFORE it was taken over by Voldemort). And it still continued to employ people like Umbridge. Of course, it also employed Mr. Weasley, as well. And I just wonder if a huge governmental entity and bureauocracy, like the Ministry, could really change so drastically in under 19 years because of 3 people.

My first choice for his career would be as a Seeker on a professional Quidditch team. Aside from being an Auror, I think playing Seeker is his second greatest skill. Next, I would rather he take up the DADA position at Hogwarts. Also, this would again illustrate the complete difference between Harry and Voldemort because Harry would be able to take on and accomplish what Voldemort wanted to and never could.

Maybe it's just me, but working for the corrupt Ministry just makes my skin crawl.
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Old 07-28-2007, 07:34 PM   #204
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Quote:
Originally posted by FitzChivalry

My first choice for his career would be as a Seeker on a professional Quidditch team. Aside from being an Auror, I think playing Seeker is his second greatest skill. Next, I would rather he take up the DADA position at Hogwarts. Also, this would again illustrate the complete difference between Harry and Voldemort because Harry would be able to take on and accomplish what Voldemort wanted to and never could.
hahahah omg that is so interesting. i totally agree.
everytime in the book when something was falling or during a quidditch game, i just knew in my heart harry would end up catching it. talk about character development, JK rowling is a master at it. she's instilled in my head this confidence in harry's skills, as well as a dislike for Rita Skeeter to know that everything she said must be taken with a few grains of salt. when i was reading about her intentions to write a book about Dumbledore, my heart was already defending Dumbledore for all the things she was about to say about his past, hahaha.h
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Old 07-28-2007, 11:25 PM   #205
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I agree with most that was said already:

Snape/Dumbledore stories were pretty good
The epilogue was lame
Lupid and Tonks shouldn't have gone, well at least Tonks.

2 other things though:

Kingsley Shacklebolt is probably the biggest badass in the entire series, does he ever mess up? Answer: no.

And what did resurrecting James, Lily, Lupin, and Sirius do at the end? Close to nothing? I thought I missed something there.
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Old 07-29-2007, 12:54 AM   #206
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I read pretty fast, so I very likely missed something important, but my impression was that it brought their spirits to Harry, they weren't resurrected.

They gave Harry the strength to face what he had to do, to not fear death.
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Old 07-29-2007, 11:52 AM   #207
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Wow. I've only now had the time to go through and read most of the long stuff in this thread. Crazy! There's so much I want to address, respond to, and bring up, but I know I'm going to forget 2/3 of it. I also read pretty quickly and am starting a slower re-read because I know I'd like a deeper understanding of a few things. Anyway, here goes:

1). King's Cross/Harry's "death" scene -- Someone had addressed Harry's nakedness in the scene. I felt that it was not fully a Garden of Eden feel, but more just that he was naked because his soul/mind had traveled to wherever he was, which was a place of rawness and possibility, a place where any new beginning could be made. This, of course, was when the reader initially thinks that Harry has died and is in some kind of heaven/limbo/etc. realm. Which brings to mind two big questions: 1). Did Harry die and come back, or only get to the brink of death and choose not to fully go over?...and....2). Where exactly did this scene take place? I'm still deciding my answer to both these questions, and I love how JKR wrote this chapter so that it could be interpreted in so many ways. Dumbledore tells Harry that they are in his own mind, that it's Harry's "show." This would make sense, as Harry has control over what happens---his clothes, seeing that it's King's Cross, etc.---all except for the baby (which I'll get to in a bit). IF it is Harry's mind, that lends itself to the concept that Harry didn't fully die, but is only half-dead, and makes the choice not to allow himself to die. The figure of Dumbledore and all that he tells Harry would thus have to be a representation of things that Harry already knows---that it's just Harry's mind creating the figure, but it's telling him things he's already worked out. This could be what JKR intends, as Dumbledore even tells Harry that Harry knows the things he wants DD to tell him. But I find the other option so much more interesting-----What if Harry HAS died? That would make the place he's in either a heaven or limbo-like place. Thus, he can't control everything--he can't control the baby or what happens to it. Yet he can control some things, and DD tells him that they're in his mind----thus raising a huge, deep concept of heaven and hereafter being some sort of realm of consciousness. I can't put my thoughts on this into words, but as someone who believes that we are all connected by some greater spark/energy/force/etc., I find this notion intriguing. In the end, I do think that Harry only went to the brink of death---when he fights LV, he talks about how he didn't die, but had intended to---but I find the idea of him actually dying, coming back, and all the philosophical stuff that entails so much more interesting.

The idea of Harry dying for others---wow. Harry even says to Voldemort something of how he intended to die to protect everyone else---and it worked---LV's spells couldn't kill anyone after Harry "died." I agree with others who don't think that JKR intended to have a specifically Christian take here---other mythologies have similar characters who die for others, some of whom return. All the same, it's a HUGE image, and it makes Harry this massively strong, impressive character. (even Christ had misgivings at his death, asking "Why, Father, have you forsaken me?") I was extraordinarily impressed with the leaps and bounds Harry's character had made once he accepted that he must die. The 'into the forest again' chapter was heartwrenching, as he came to grips with the idea. But when he fights LV, he has such steadfast, rock-solid confidence and strength....he reminded me of Aragorn in LOTR once he accepts that he must be King. Very cool.

The baby. I think that it's the part of Voldemort's soul that was in Harry and is dying. I think that makes the most sense, plus there's the curious fact that it's a baby---just as Harry was when that part of the soul entered him. There are three things, though, that are odd. 1). Why couldn't Dumbledore tell Harry what it was? If it was the part of LV's soul, it wouldn't have been an issue for DD to tell Harry what it was. My answer is that if the scene is in Harry's mind, and the DD there is a figment of Harry's imagination telling him only what Harry already knows---then DD can't tell Harry that it's the dying part of LV's soul.....Harry initially doesn't even know where he his, he thinks he may be dead, etc...he has no reason yet to think that the baby is LV's bit of soul...thus, the figment of his own imagination can't tell him something that he doesn't know. The figure of DD has to help Harry realize enough information that he can recognize what the baby is. JKR doesn't come out and say what it is---you have to come to understand the whole situation just as Harry does. 2). Why is the baby trapped under a chair? I have no idea. 3). When Harry fights LV, he tells him to feel remorse because he has seen what LV would otherwise become. What does this mean? Does he mean the baby? If so, does that make the baby something else? I need to go back and read all the stuff about remorse, etc., from earlier in the book, but I think that I have this one half-cracked. Harry has seen the baby, LV's soul, dying. He has seen and come to grips with the possibility of his OWN death. Thus, Harry has seen what LV would become without remorse---he has seen "dead." Still, I need to read the remorse bits again....
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Old 07-29-2007, 12:04 PM   #208
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2). The epilogue -- I don't think it's nearly as bad as some people do. Actually, I don't quite see why people think it's bad. It needs to be "neat." If Harry lives, would you really not expect him to end up with Ginny? And Ron & Hermione---that's been obvious since the second or third book. Basically, because Harry lived, the epilogue pretty much needs to be what it is. If you didn't want Harry to live, then I'd imagine you would have a problem with much more than just the epilogue, so I don't see why one would focus only on that.

Even the series that some people argue is better than HP---Lord of the Rings---has a cheesy, "neat" wrap-up ending. (In fact, it's much worse, as it has things that pretty much destroy character images---i.e., Eowyn marrying Faramir...there goes her butch soldier-girlness).

The epilogue is more than just a wrap-up and loose-end-tying chapter. It gives Harry what he's always wanted, what he's longed for throughout the entire 7-book series: a loving family. That's the point of the epilogue, and that's why it's a perfect end to the books.






More will come in spurts later....
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Old 07-29-2007, 12:09 PM   #209
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2). The epilogue -- I don't think it's nearly as bad as some people do. Actually, I don't quite see why people think it's bad. It needs to be "neat." If Harry lives, would you really not expect him to end up with Ginny? And Ron & Hermione---that's been obvious since the second or third book. Basically, because Harry lived, the epilogue pretty much needs to be what it is. If you didn't want Harry to live, then I'd imagine you would have a problem with much more than just the epilogue, so I don't see why one would focus only on that.

Even the series that some people argue is better than HP---Lord of the Rings---has a cheesy, "neat" wrap-up ending. (In fact, it's much worse, as it has things that pretty much destroy character images---i.e., Eowyn marrying Faramir...there goes her butch soldier-girlness).

The epilogue is more than just a wrap-up and loose-end-tying chapter. It gives Harry what he's always wanted, what he's longed for throughout the entire 7-book series: a loving family. That's the point of the epilogue, and that's why it's a perfect end to the books.






More will come in spurts later....
It's not that it was that lam, but it didn't tell you what happened to everyone. I want to know what happened to the Weasleys, Hogwarts, the Ministry, former Death Eaters, etc...

I loved Mama Weasley's Ellen Ripley moment against Bellatrix, that was badass.
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Old 07-29-2007, 12:50 PM   #210
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I thought she was so opposed to sequels to Book 7 that the epilogue would be much more detailed. She left the door completely open now.
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