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Old 07-24-2007, 09:03 PM   #151
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Quote:
Originally posted by maycocksean

I actually feel like I would have been more devestated if Hermione or Ron had bit it.

When Bellatrix was torturing Hermione in the Malfoy Manor, I was literally curled up in a fetal position, cringing while reading, and repeating over and over and over to myself . . . "No, not Hermione. No, please, not Hermione."


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Old 07-24-2007, 10:03 PM   #152
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Originally posted by FitzChivalry



When Bellatrix was torturing Hermione in the Malfoy Manor, I was literally curled up in a fetal position, cringing while reading, and repeating over and over and over to myself . . . "No, not Hermione. No, please, not Hermione."


I know! I really thought that was going to be it for her.
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Old 07-24-2007, 10:35 PM   #153
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For some reason I just knew that Ron and Hermione weren't going to die. I knew that Snape would die, and that's about it. Every other death was as big a shock to me as anything.

I just re-read the Dobby scene today and big ole tears flopped into my book. That scene is so saddening! The way that Harry calls his name over and over.
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Old 07-24-2007, 10:39 PM   #154
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i've JUST finished it. now i can join in on the party!

wow... first of all, i have to admit that i was naive and stupid, and not prepared to read about students being killed in a school. it was so vivid and personal. it hit me close to home...

anyway, i've skimmed through the first and last few pages of this thread...and i'm guessing from the responses that perhaps i was the only one who sobbed when remus died? it was in one swift sentence on page 661 (yes it has been engraved in my memory), i kept reading it over and over thinking "it can't be!" and then i sobbed. just like that, he was dead.

i agree the epilogue was LAME. the only thing i liked about it was what Harry said to Albus Severus. it was so unbearably cheesy, i was mad that was the last part of the book.

back to remus. i thought that i had read somewhere that he was jo's favorite character? i guess that was enough to convince me that he wouldn't die. alas i was wrong. he was my favorite character. i do NOT approve of his casting...but regardless, i really thought he was excellently written.

i just can't believe it is over! i realized what a supplement this has been to my live over the past...6 years (I got into it a bit late.) i mean, many of my college friends were into this series like i was. we went to movie premieres, attended book release parties, dressed up for halloween, kicked each others asses in Quidditch for the cube. We even had some nasty games of Harry Potter Uno which resulted in us not speaking to each other until after a few days.

and now, the series is over. wow. that was just really really epic.
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Old 07-25-2007, 03:56 AM   #155
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Actually, after Snape, he was my 2nd favorite character...I think we can now guess that the character who was supposed to origionally die was Hagrid, and Tonks and Lupin were killed off instead. Makes me mad. Fitting that the way they died was not described though...we just see their bodies laid out and they look peaceful as if they were asleep. GOD how tragic. Brand new parents, and lovers for less than a year. Lupin found love and happiness so late in his life (I'm guessing a werewolf doesn't exactly have luck with the ladies, and with Lupin's shabby appearance, probably not even a one-night stand!) I love David Thewlis's portrayal, what is wrong with him? I wonder what his reaction is, BTW..."Your character gets married, has a child, and then dies, all in one book." Gee, thanks for the lack of drama, Rowling! The doomed lovers of the war.

Lupin and Tonks were criminally underplayed in Film 5 but the way they were written in 6 and 7 we might actually see the full extent of the tragedy after all. There's not hardly anything of them but the bits we have are signifigant. We might see the Bill and Fleur sceneonly Bill and Fluer might not be in it it willjustbe the rest of the Order, and as Shell Cottage I am sure will NOT be shown in Fim 7, they could probably have Lupin announce his son's birth in another setting. I *LOVE* the way this is written and am very moved by it. There's howling wind outside and this could be the reason he shouts but it's also literary cover for his joy. He shouts to the world "It is I, Remus John Lupin, I'm a werewolf and I'm married to Nympadora Tonks" and he couldn't give a crap if there were 10 Death Eaters standing there, he's so overjoyed. I mean, the poor guy probably didn't even see himself finding a wife, let alone fathering a child. (sorry....I'm just sentimental about this stuff! And Rowling's description of the new Dad...priceless. We won't hardly see Lupin in Film 7 but I can see them putting this in...there's a bang on the door and someone opens it and Lupin is standing there looking disheveled, "dad" in the delivery room look, and he says, "It's a boy, Tonks just had the baby an hour ago"or something like that, and then his eyes roll up and he faints *THUNK* I can see David Thewlis doing this, in the book it says "he fell across the threshold". And then we don't see him again until the end of the scene where he is seen swigging wine and he looks tipsy and they push him out the door and he is swaying, slurring "goodbye" etc. LOL.A GREAT bit of comic relief, it won't become tragic until the next time we'd see Lupin and Tonksin the film, when they are seen dead side by side in the Great Hall. This would be a good way to film this.

Anyway, PhillyFan, I never thought about that....why Voldemort simply didn't AK Snape. It was b/c he didn't want Snape to have a swift and painless death. Also, in Chapter 33 we are told that Snape personally went to Voldemort to beghim to spare Lily. Which was of course refused. Violdemort realized the depth pf Snape's betraysl and also suspected why Snape had done it. He relaized Snape had not taken Voldemort's advice and looked for relationships with pureblood women (Voldemort alludes to this in the fight with Harry) but remained devoted to the Mudblood. So he wanted Snape to have time to feel the despair of the fruitlessness of his life's efforts, to have him killed. God, how even more tragic....

Regarding the King's Cross Chapter, someone else on another site had suggested a Lord of the Rings/Gandalf parallel. I think that would be pushing it though b/c even in LOTR it is hinted that Gandalf is semi-devine and an angel...I was "sent back, until my task is done." He is a Maia, so the Grace was given him to return to Arda, if his purpose was unfillfilled, and if the Valar willed it. In the films, the unearthly white light Gandalf the White first appears in in Two Towers, Jackson hints at this. To suggest the same for Harry is pushing it a little, IMO.

And regarding Hermione....I'm starting Chapter 6 right now (having finished all of pg 580 on, plus Chapter 19 and bits and pieces of the first half of the book...). I haven't gotten as far as Malfoy Manor. OH GOD. Thanks for the warning, it'll be easier to read that if I'm spoiled. HOW will Emma Watson play this, as it is a scene that will HAVE to be shown in the film??
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Old 07-25-2007, 03:20 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally posted by Teta040
Wow. Thanks a lot people for actually taking the time to some SERIOUS LITERARY analysis of the book. (*sarcastic*) I can't wait until people like Varitek and Utoo get (back) on here. Thanks to everyone who agree with me on Snape.
Haha thanks. I've been really busy, no internet in my apartment and whenever I get on I have to do work - my office is indefinately inaccessible due to the steam pipe eruption in NY, I won't get in until after it's time to go back to school! Ugh.

So, I have only read as far as right above this response 2 days ago, and I have to keep it briefe now, but a few things:

I really enjoyed the humble pie ya'll served Justin.

Snape's Patronus was beautiful, that scene was beautiful, and his character is indeed fairly complex. But also fairly simple - I was disapointed that love for LIly was all there was to him, I guess because the idea had been guessed long ago (even some speculated on why his Patrounus was significant - nobody guessed Doe that I know of but after Tonks, I saw some speculation. Now interestingly, the fact that Snape's Patronus is a doe and Harry's is a Stag for James must really, really get under Snape's skin). However, I don't resent the storyline too much, because it did end up being beautiful, moving, and just exactly the way it always had to be, for all 7 books, as people have said.

I'm really sad the Potions book probably got burned in the curse fire so Harry can't give it to Albus Severus, also a thousand great potions inovations were probably lost because we all know Harry won't remember any of them without the book!

OK got to go, I'll try and get more internet time next weekend and get back on this thread. I am seriously craving some HP analysis without my internet!
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Old 07-25-2007, 03:20 PM   #157
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I finally can come in this thread, I finished the book during my lunch hour today. so sad it's over

was sad about Dobby and Lupin and Tonks, and Fred. I knew some people would have to die, but still it sucked. I did think Harry was going to die, it took a few rereads of pages to understand what was happening. the epilogue wasn't great but I guess that's her answer to giving some kind of closure to what happens after all the battles.
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Old 07-25-2007, 05:31 PM   #158
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From a Today Show interview:

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/19935372/

Quote:
In her first tell-all interview since the release of “Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows,” J.K. Rowling told TODAY’s Meredith Vieira she “probably will” publish a Potter encyclopedia, promising many more details about her beloved characters and the fate of the wizarding world beyond the few clues provided in the seventh book’s epilogue.

“I suppose I have [started] because the raw material is all in my notes,” Rowling said. The encyclopedia would include back stories of characters she has already written but had to cut for the sake of narrative arc (“I've said before that Dean Thomas had a much more interesting history than ever appeared in the books”), as well as details about the characters who survive “Deathly Hallows,” characters who continue to live on in Rowling’s mind in a clearly defined magical world.

Hogwarts, for example, has a new headmaster (“McGonagall was really getting on a bit”), and Rowling said she can see Harry going back to give the “odd talk” on Defense Against the Dark Arts. That class, by the way, is now led by a permanent professor, since Voldemort’s death broke the jinx that didn’t allow a teacher to remain in the position for more than a year.


And:

Quote:
One of the big stories that has been floating among fans for more than a year is that one character gets a reprieve from death, while two others Rowling didn’t intend to kill end up dying in “Deathly Hallows.”

“Mr. Weasley, he was the person who got a reprieve,” Rowling said. “When I sketched out the books, Mr. Weasley was due to die in Book 5.”


Quote:
Originally posted by Teta040
Wow. Thanks a lot people for actually taking the time to some SERIOUS LITERARY analysis of the book. (*sarcastic*) I can't wait until people like Varitek and Utoo get (back) on here. Thanks to everyone who agree with me on Snape.
How patronizing.
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Old 07-25-2007, 06:27 PM   #159
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(Oh good, I thought I was the only one with that reaction to that post.)

Does she mean Mr. Weasley as in Ron? Or as in ... Mr. Weasley?
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Old 07-25-2007, 07:03 PM   #160
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Quote:
Originally posted by Varitek

But also fairly simple - I was disapointed that love for LIly was all there was to him,
When i read about how much he loved lily, all my hate for him dissolved. i can't believe it was that easy to turn around my thoughts about him, JK rowling is freaking genius. This whole time, i thought snape was incapable of love because he's always so cold and yuck, but the fact that everything he's done up to this point was for Lily, it kinda melted my heart that he kept it so much to himself. evreyone misunderstood him for it, everyone misjudged him and yet he always kept it to himself. it's so strong!

and LOL about the Potions book!!!
touching as it is that harry named his second son Albus Severus, but it's really funny if you say it out loud because the ending s in albus blends in with the beginning s in severus.
ok i'm wierd.
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Old 07-25-2007, 07:09 PM   #161
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Originally posted by Butterscotch
Did anyone hear Emma wasn't signing on for the last 2 movies? That would be a big blow to the series, and her career!
i heard that she was.
in a recent interview with Parade magazine, she said she considered not signing up, but then she decided to sign up because she loves Hermione so much, and watching someone else play Hermione would be a blow to her heart
something along those lines
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Old 07-25-2007, 07:28 PM   #162
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Originally posted by Teta040
Violdemort realized the depth of Snape's betraysl
_____________________________________________
And regarding Hermione....
did Voldemort know snape betrayed him? i don't think he did. i thought Harry was the first to bring it up and Voldemort still didn't get it.
"Dumbledore chose his own manner of dying ...arranged the whole thing with the man you thought was your servant"
"What childish dream is this?" said Voldemort
"Severus Snape wasn't yours....And you never realized it, because of the thing you can't understand."
....
"He desired her, that was all" sneered Voldy

maybe AV is for enemies and Voldy considered snape to still be loyal?

o gosh, my new favorite hobby is rereading the epic Harry telling off Voldy verbally and then harry defeating Voldy magically bit. i LOVED it!!!


anyway, about hermione, hahah, my friend had actually posted a FAKE SPOILER on his blog the night of the released, and i accidentally read the first sentence, but quickly closed the page before i accidentally read the rest of the paragraph. i knew he wasn't that cruel, so i had an inkling that it was a joke spoiler. he said "the 7th book ends with Hermione's funeral" and i was so devastated as i read that chapter cuz i hoped it wans't true. ALSO because it's like the middle of the book, it would seem improbable that her funeral would be at the end, so thank goodness he didn't truly ruin it for me ;]

happy reading!
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Old 07-25-2007, 08:11 PM   #163
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This will be random/not in the flow of the thread, so, forgive me. I've read the whole thread, and aside from Justin's derailment, have enjoyed most of the posts.

I'd like to share with you guys what the series means to me, forgive me if it's hokey or long or both. Skip now if that might bother you.

First off, let me say that I read a lot...like, a lot. I'm no book snob, I read all sorts of fiction, from more challenging titles to typical summer fare. I just like to read. I've read a lot of titles in the "fantasy" genre, some amazing, some tiredly cliche, and some in the middle. Ok.

When Potter-mania first erupted, I abstained. I figured if everyone liked them, then I might not. However, 9/11 came, and, for 4-5 days, I was doing 1 of 2 things.....being at work with my mind on NYC, my home, or being in my apartment in LA, watching CNN with my mind on NYC. After the Tribute to Heroes concert, I finally let loose my tears, and it was cathartic, and I was basically ready to get back to my regular life. However, I was not really in the mood to read anything "heavy"....and nothing on my bookshelf(elves) looked appealing...so, I wadnered over to Barnes, and picked up the first Potter book. I loved it. I'll not bore you with why, if you love the books, you know why I loved it. I blew through it in like 2 days, and went and bought the next 3, and read them in about 2 weeks. They really helped me through a tough time in my (everyone's) life, and I could not have been more grateful. However, I did not trumpet the series to anyone, I just finished them and kept quiet about it.

Anyway, that was it, I did not pick up the OOTP or HBP, until, last week. I realized the film was out, Hallows was coming, so....I read the next 2, then bouth Hallows on Sunday morning, and, finished it last night.

I was very pleased with the last book, and, rarely have I come across books that get a rise out of me emotionally like these books. I don't know what it is, but, they hit me where I live in many instances, and I love that. Dalton said something that ran through my head, actually....that reading the last book actually wanted me to strengthen some of my relationships....and these are good ones, but, the book made me value them all the more, and it made me endeavor to make sure these people are close to me always. So, yeah, all these books I read and it takes the Potter series to impact me emotionally. Other books do, too, of course, but not quite like that.

Anyway, I'm rambling, but, I'll just say that I'm sorry and happy to see the series end, I thought the epilogue was simple, sure, but still nice, I am glad Snape turned out to be braver than I gave him credit for, and I thought the scene with the doe patronus leading Harry to the sword was truly lovely. And, lastly, I'm still grateful for the positive impact these books had on me as I read them, and after I had finished them. Now, I need to go see Order of the Phoenix this weekend.
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Old 07-26-2007, 12:55 AM   #164
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No Spoken Words, that was beautiful *sniff* (How many times have I thought of "A sort Of Homecoming" when reading about Iraq?..."..the land grows weary of its own." ).after 9/11 it was really all "just a scream" for everybody, I never thought of the HP books providing comfort in that way, and it's fitting, isn't it?

That's sort of the way I'm looking at DH right now. Our government is full of corruption and cowardice, and I'm thinking "Damn, I wish we had a Kingsley as President." One of my fave images(so far) from DH is Uncle Vernon talking about seeing Kingsley on TV doing his Secret Service thing for the Muggle Prime Minister, it was a great link between the wizarding
world and ours. When I'm readign the headlines I'm mentally making lists of gov't officials and matching them with their HP equivalents, though which ones are Order members, which are Aurors, which are corrupt Ministry plants and which are dowright Death Eaters, hm, I'll keep that to myself. Sometimes--don't think me corny for saying this!--I've been in HP mania the last 3 weeks, between the movie and the book, and I've been going around imagining thestrals in the air (my sister would be able to see one b/c she discovered my mother's body after she committed suicide a yr and half ago; would I be able to see one too?) is it too corny for a 30-something adult to be having these"flights of fantasy" (and I'm spilling my guts on here, I haven't told a soul)? Wishing I could Apparate and that I could wear a traveling cloak Like Lupin's, on the bus....wondering what my Patronus would be, esp after Snape...*SOB!*, I'd love mine to be a white Arabian mare....And I've been going around the house saying things like "Accio Car Keys!" etc. I know, pathetic, and it's weird b/c for some reason b/c I've never had this fantasy thing happen before, not even with LOTR, which I read 15 yrs ago, but that was written for adults so I can see why. And I';ve known the HP books since '03 and I've nevber had it hitmwe lile this. Though I've transcribed Sam's speech at the end of the Two Towers film and have it on my desk.

I guess the world outside is growing too dark and I can understand the escapism at last. I've been on a site where someone has a friend in the IDF and he says they are having massive miltary maneuvers in the Negev right now, and the Syrians are having miltary excesises right now, and the rumors are that the Mossad has seen Hezbollah gearing up also, setting up a private telephone network and digging embankments, etc. He thinks that Israel and Syria will go to a full-scale war over the Golan Heights before the summer is over, we'll see a repeat of last summer....and I believe it....so for a little while longer we can retreat into the wizarding world and block all this out. Thank you, Jo, for giivng us something beautiful, that will last forever.

And Varitek, that's so awful! How close was your office to the explosion? I saw a video of it. It was lucky more people were not hurt! Maybe it's a good thing your office is shut b/c there are worries about the asbestos in the old '20's pipes etc. After 9/11 the air quality around Ground Zero was hushed up and they might try to hush this up too. BE CAREFUL! Constant vigilance! Better losing your job than destroying your health....
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Old 07-26-2007, 06:54 AM   #165
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Quote:
Originally posted by No spoken words
I don't know what it is, but, they hit me where I live in many instances, and I love that. Dalton said something that ran through my head, actually....that reading the last book actually wanted me to strengthen some of my relationships....and these are good ones, but, the book made me value them all the more, and it made me endeavor to make sure these people are close to me always. So, yeah, all these books I read and it takes the Potter series to impact me emotionally. Other books do, too, of course, but not quite like that.
I think that is an important theme of this book. We learn that Dumbledore is quite the shady character. He kept his ideas to himself, spoke in obsucred words that prevented others from getting close or fully understanding what was going on in his head. Thus, he isolated himself in his thinking and his plan, which got messed up really early on. Instead he used people who trusted him the most, Snape and Harry like pawns to carry out his plan. He wasn't honest, and I was so surprised and upset with him with what we learned about him later on.

However, as Dumbledore said, Harry was the better person. Harry didn't go about this mission alone. He wanted to, but then he had Hermoine and Ron by his side most of the time. He needed them. He valued friendship and love far more than Dumbledore did, because he stayed close to them in his entire journey, until the very end when he knew it just had to be him and Voldemort.

Despite this book being in a fantasy setting, it just seems more human to me than other fantasies. For example, like Lord of the Rings. I believe that book mainly has architypes, which is usually typical in fantasy stories. However in HP, we see that things are not so dualistic. While other fantasy books I've read are very clear about who is evil and who is good, HP was not. We see how HUMAN humanity really is. Theres good and bad in each and every one of us. It is what we choose to act on that matters. Dumbledore turned from one of my most adored characters to one that is kinda sketch now. It was very symbolic about Harry having a bit of Voldemort in him.

One of my friends said she wished that Voldemort had a chance to redeem himself...but the thing is he did! Harry referred to him as Riddle, his human name. Refusing to accept him as this evil monster he had turned into. He also wanted him to show remorse for his actions. Harry was trying to get him to open up to that. But he had refused, because he was so submerged in his rage, and ended up killing himself with his own curse.

And to be honest, I don't think it was really possible for Voldemort to redeem. Consider the characters....they had for the most part the same childhood, why did Voldemort turn out so bad adn Harry so good? (Hehe this is where my post comes full circle) I believe it was love. Harry never knew his parents, yet his mother protected him, and that love, as Dumbledore said in the first book I believe, stayed with him forever. Voldemort never experienced that love I don't think. His mother died in childbirth, he was raised in an orphanage. I think from the very beginning he was angered and wouldn't let others close to him.

Love is what kept Harry from going bad. Voldemort hadn't experienced anything of the sort. I think if Voldemort had loved somebody, or was loved by somebody, then he would've had a chance to chnge...but I don't think he could, because he never tried.

Anyway, that's what I got from the book. Love > everything. And I really really liked what was written on James & Lilly's statue (or grave was it?) The last enemy to be defeated is death. Lily defeated death, with her love for her son.
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