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Old 01-11-2007, 07:03 AM   #61
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It's funny how Americans just see Footbal, Baseball and Basketball as sports.... )) no offense here, I was in the US 4 years in college.... I like the US..... but I think the top 5 athletes of all time don't come from those 3 sports....

1. Pele
2. Ali
3. Jordan ( basketball.... I know )
4. Schumacher
5. Carl Lewis

6... maybe n° 1 in a few years : Federer
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Old 01-11-2007, 09:05 AM   #62
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Originally posted by Yahweh_OMG
It's funny how Americans just see Footbal, Baseball and Basketball as sports.... )) no offense here, I was in the US 4 years in college.... I like the US..... but I think the top 5 athletes of all time don't come from those 3 sports....

1. Pele
2. Ali
3. Jordan ( basketball.... I know )
4. Schumacher
5. Carl Lewis

6... maybe n° 1 in a few years : Federer
i find it funny how you consider a man who sits in a car for a living to be a "sportsman," but ya don't hear me bitchin'.

if we're talking just pure athlete, my vote is for jim thorpe. but when we talk sportsman, i think of someone who dominated their sport and is known across the world, even in places that don't follow the sport closely. thus, ali 1, pele 2, jordan a distant 3rd.
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Old 01-11-2007, 09:32 AM   #63
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Originally posted by intedomine


Basketball might be played globally, but the only league in the world people give a toss about is the NBA.

Hockey is global, but no one (unfortunately, because I like hockey) gives a rats about it.

Cricket is certainly not as huge a commercial sport, but a market of 1.1 billions is a market not to be sneezed at.
tell the eastern europeans that the only basketball they care about is the NBA. i do remember you coming into the basketball thread when the greeks beat the US and whoopin' it up. you seemed to care, then.

Quote:
Originally posted by intedomine
Holy crap, are we talking about Ice Hockey???

That's not even real hockey!

Nothing against Wayne Gretzky (his stats seem impressive) or ice hockey as a sport, but surely in our quest to find the greatest sportsperson of all time we have to consider some of the elite superstars of other sports such as tchoukball, underwater rugby and sitting volleyball for example.

Eddie Keher was a superstar in the Gaelic game of Hurling...maybe he is the greatest sportsperson of all time?


Can anyone provide a link to a comparions of Gretzky's stats with other elite Ice Hockey players in history? I wanna see how his stats compare.
i suppose by "real hockey" you're speaking of field hockey, which is a sport played by women in skirts in north america.

ice hockey isn't even that big in the US (so considernig it's not a huge sport in the United States and Gretzky is Canadians, you can like the sport now, right?).

field hockey has been an olympic sport for exactly 4 more olympiads than ice hockey. wooooooo.

as for wayne gretzky and his dominance of the sport... here are the only stats you need.

All Time NHL Point Leaders (points = goals & assists combined)
Player - Total Games Played - Total Points
1. Wayne Gretzky - 1487 games played - 2857 points
2. Mark Messier - 1756 games played - 1887 points
3. Gordie Howe - 1767 games played - 1850 points

gretzky has 1,000+ more points in 300 fewer games than #2 on the list.

if you need more, i present this.

2005-2006 Season 100 Point Scorers (nation of birth)
1. Joe Thorton - 125 points (canada)
2. Jaromir Jagar - 123 points (czechoslovakia)
3. Alexander Ovechkin - 106 points (ussr)
4. Dany Heatley - 104 points (west germany)
5. Daniel Alfredsson - 103 points (sweden)
6. Sidney Crosby - 102 points (canada)
7. Eric Staal - 100 points (canada)

gretzky scored over 100 points in a season 14 times. he scored more points than last year's point leader (in a season where scoring was considered to be up) 13 times in his career. he scored over 200 points in a single season 4 times. no other player in the history of the NHL has scored 200 points in a season besides gretzky.

i hope that proves to you that
a) he dominated his sport like no other player in the history of the sport
b) the sport is most certainly an international one.
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Old 01-11-2007, 12:18 PM   #64
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Headache, I think you presented your facts well. Hockey is one of the most difficult sports to play. Not only do you have to be able to skate well, you have to be in good shape and, most importantly, tough. Oh yes, you also have to know how to play. When I was a little shit growing up on Long Island, the Islanders were winning Stanley Cups, but the player that most people cared about was The Great One. The Isles had great teams in the early 80's, but Gretzky was the Ultimate player. No disrespect to the town of Edmonton, but he put Edmonton on the map. He was a great leader, a great teammate and a great ambassador for the game of hockey.
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Old 01-11-2007, 01:32 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally posted by zoney!
WORLD FAMOUS:

Pele, Jordan and Ali
Agreed. I'd also add Ted Williams (though Babe Ruth is probably more well known) and Wayne Gretzky for their respective sports.

Football? I dunno. Montana, maybe? But I don't think he's even close to world famous.
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Old 01-11-2007, 01:35 PM   #66
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Originally posted by MrPryck2U
Headache, I think you presented your facts well. Hockey is one of the most difficult sports to play. Not only do you have to be able to skate well, you have to be in good shape and, most importantly, tough. Oh yes, you also have to know how to play. When I was a little shit growing up on Long Island, the Islanders were winning Stanley Cups, but the player that most people cared about was The Great One. The Isles had great teams in the early 80's, but Gretzky was the Ultimate player. No disrespect to the town of Edmonton, but he put Edmonton on the map. He was a great leader, a great teammate and a great ambassador for the game of hockey.

Also, Gretzky's number 99 is retired in the entire NHL, not just places he played. The guy was a god.
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Old 01-11-2007, 01:48 PM   #67
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Williams was great, BUT he won zero titles. Plus, good old Ted was a dick.
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Old 01-11-2007, 02:33 PM   #68
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Andre Agassi should be mentioned in this discussion. Yes, he doesn't have as many slams as Sampras, and Federer will surpass him soon as well, but there aren't many tennis players in the history of the sport that were as consistantly loved all around the world as Agassi was.

When he lost his last match, the New York crowd, which is notorius for either loving you or hating you, gave him an 8+ minute standing ovation.

The guy is one of the greatest and most influential tennis players to ever pick up a racquet.
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Old 01-11-2007, 02:48 PM   #69
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Agassi, Sampras and Federer all fall well in line historically in popularity behind Borg, McEnroe, Connors, Navritalova, Graf and probably Everett.

These guys have skills, but outside of Agassi, no personality to raise them to superstar status above just the fans of the sport.
And Agassi's talent as good as it was is far inferior to the 3 men mentioned above, and his wife may be able to beat him in straight sets.
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Old 01-11-2007, 02:53 PM   #70
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I thought I'd reply to this post in terms of NBA basketball...the top 10 players ever at each position:

Center

1. Wilt "The Stilt" Chamberlain
2. Bill Russell
3. Hakeem "The Dream" Olajuwon
4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
5. Shaquille "The Diesel" O'Neal
6. David "The Admiral" Robinson
7. Patrick Ewing
8. Bob McAdoo
9. George Mikan
10. Willis Reed

Power Forward

1. Karl "The Mailman" Malone
2. Tim Duncan
3. Kevin McHale
4. "Sir" Charles Barkley
5. Elvin Hayes
6. Bob Petit
7. Jerry Lucas
8. Kevin Garnett
9. Shawn "The Reignman" Kemp(his play from 93-97 pre-crackhead days really was THAT good)
10. Dennis "The Worm" Rodman

Small Forward

1. Larry "Legend" Bird
2. Julius "Dr.J" Erving
3. Scottie Pippen
4. Elgin Baylor
5. John Havlicek
6. Dominique "Human Highlight Film" Wilkins
7. Rick Barry
8. Alex English
9. Billy Cunningham
10. Dolph Schayes

Shooting Guard

1. Michael "Air" Jordan
2. Jerry "Mr. Clutch" West
3. George "The Iceman" Gervin
4. Clyde "The Glide" Drexler
5. Kobe Bryant
6. Allen "The Answer" Iverson
7. "Pistol" Pete Maravich
8. Reggie Miller
9. Earl "The Pearl" Monroe
10. David Thompson

Point Guard

1. Earvin "Magic" Johnson
2. Oscar "The Big O" Robertson
3. John Stockton
4. Bob Cousy
5. Isiah "Zeke" Thomas
6. Jason Kidd
7. Gary "The Glove" Payton
8. Steve Nash
9. Walt "Clyde" Frazier
10. Nate "Tiny" Archibald
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Old 01-11-2007, 02:57 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hewson
Agassi, Sampras and Federer all fall well in line historically in popularity behind Borg, McEnroe, Connors, Navritalova, Graf and probably Everett.

These guys have skills, but outside of Agassi, no personality to raise them to superstar status above just the fans of the sport.
And Agassi's talent as good as it was is far inferior to the 3 men mentioned above, and his wife may be able to beat him in straight sets.
Agassi was the greatest returner of service in the history of the sport period - so said by McEnroe himself.

Agassi and Connors are tied with 8 grand slam titles, while McEnroe has 7. Of the guys you mentioned, only Sampras, Borg, and Federer have more slams than Agassi.

And Agassi has more personality than Sampras, Borg, and Federer combined. That is a fact. Agassi is probably still the most loved tennis player in the world. Regardless of who has more slams.
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Old 01-11-2007, 02:58 PM   #72
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Scottie Pippen at #3 for the 3 position over the likes of Elgin Baylor and Hondo earns a , Bulls fan maybe?
Shouldn't Bill Cartwright be #3 center and Luc Longley #7?
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Old 01-11-2007, 03:01 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hewson
Scottie Pippen at #3 for the 3 position over the likes of Elgin Baylor and Hondo earns a , Bulls fan maybe?
Shouldn't Bill Cartwright be #3 center and Luc Longley #7?
Cartwright and Longley were roleplayers.

Pippen is a Top 50 player all time, and is regarded as one of the best, if not THE best, perimiter defender of all time.
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Old 01-11-2007, 03:05 PM   #74
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Top 50 yes, top 15...no.
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Old 01-11-2007, 03:18 PM   #75
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Martina was better than Agassi.
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