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Old 01-08-2007, 08:53 PM   #46
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this kinda proves how babe ruth goes ahead of federer... you know nothing about baseball, live in a country where baseball probably ranks somewhere behind lawn darts in popularity... yet you know who babe ruth is.

and not for nothing, baseball is the national sport of the USA, Japan, Taiwan, Venezuela, Cuba, Dominican Republic, Nicauragua, Panama and Puerto Rico. it may not be played everywhere, but it is not "just the US and Japan."

Just because almost everyone knows who Babe Ruth was has little to do do with how great a sportsman he was. It's just that no matter where we are in the world, the legends of American sport will always recieve greater promotion and attract wider recognition because America is America. It's a kind of Americanisation of sport history.

While the world might recognise Babe Ruth as a sporting legend, few would understand (or could even give a toss) about what it was that he achieved on the field of play.

As an American, I'm sure you have no idea about what makes Don Bradman such an esteemed figure in cricket (a sport played not just in England, Australia and the Carribean, but also passionately followed in populous nations such as India and Bangaldesh.)

Few doubt that Bradman was the greatest cricketer of all-time. He averaged 99.94 runs per innings. Next best is G. Pollock with an average of 61. Modern day greats such as Ponting and Lara average 59.7 and 52.9 respectively. For over 50 years, no one has come close to Bradman.

Is Babe Ruth popularly regarded as hands-down the greatest baseball player of all time?

How does one compare Ruth with Bradman?

...The thing that appeals to me about Federer is the highly competitive individual sport that is tennis. His fate is in his hands and his alone. Any tennis player who can dominate in such a physically and mentally demanding sport for so long, week in week out, deserves high praise and warrants recognition a a legend.


...And although baseball might be the national sport of Japan, Cuba, Puerto Rica, Venezuela and Nicaragua, you'd still probably find more kids playing football (soccer) in the streets of these countries and their sporting heroes would still probably be soccer players, such is the appeal of the sport. Nothing else compares....nothing will.
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Old 01-08-2007, 09:10 PM   #47
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As far as cricket goes, saying "nobody cares" is bullshit. Its level of popularity makes rubbish like baseball look thoroughly unpopular (as it should).

1 billion Indians, a sixth of the world's population, can't be wrong!
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Old 01-08-2007, 10:28 PM   #48
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we'll never know if Ruth was even the greatest player of his time as blacks weren't allowed to participate in the major leagues

that's one of the issues i have with Don Hutson even being mentioned in the same breath as Jerry Rice:

1. most able bodied men, black or white, were fighting in WW2 at the time when he was at his most prolific

2. again, no blacks in major league football at the time
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Old 01-08-2007, 11:30 PM   #49
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OK, I'm going to do something I don't normally do and drop my "go New Zealand at everything!" attitude for just a minute. While I would like to argue that individuals such as Pinetree Meads and Peter Blake are the greastest sportsmen of all time, I think all of us need to simply face facts and acknowledge that Don Bradman is indisputably the greatest sportsman of any major sport ever.

I quote:

Quote:
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Bradman#Context

[An explanation of statistics taken from a book by Charles Davis called The Best Of The Best:]

[A]mongst a group of top professionals, you'd expect someone of Donald Bradman's calibre to appear 1 out of 184,000 compared with one out of 1 out of 3,000 for Michael Jordan. In fact, it's possible that Bradman's statistics are even more extreme because of extra deviation created by non-batting specialists. This is evident by noting that Bradman is out of sight compared with the second highest average.

In order to post a similarly dominant career statistic as Bradman, a baseball batter would need a career batting average of 0.392, while a basketballer would need to score 43 points per game.
Garfield Sobers really deserves a mention too. He was another absolutely mindblowingly talented cricketer, though Bradman still blows him away. On a statistical analysis, Bradman blows everyone away.
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"And as for Bono, he needs a colostomy bag for his mouth."

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Old 01-09-2007, 02:07 AM   #50
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I don't care about this 'crickett'. Cricket on the other hand....

I was going to post about how Bradman's big innings such as his 334 at Leeds didn't necessarily translate into victories for Australia, but then I looked it up and realized all my stats were wrong. Holy crap.
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Old 01-09-2007, 12:51 PM   #51
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It seems that everyone has their own criteria for Greatest Sportsman or Greatest athlete. Americans aren't really too familiar with cricket because they have Major League Baseball. Just like cricket fans might not be into baseball because they have their sport. Anyway, I'm sure one could pick any top star from their favorite sport and declare them the greatest of all time. I couldn't argue with some of the names mentioned. Babe Ruth, Micheal Jordon, Wayne Gretzky, Ali and Pele are all one-of-a-kind athletes/superstars. Babe Ruth might've liked to eat, drink and be merry, but despite himself, he still had an amazing career. I think every name that's been mentioned in this thread could be considered the greatest.
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Old 01-09-2007, 09:17 PM   #52
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Originally posted by MrPryck2U
It seems that everyone has their own criteria for Greatest Sportsman or Greatest athlete. Americans aren't really too familiar with cricket because they have Major League Baseball. Just like cricket fans might not be into baseball because they have their sport. Anyway, I'm sure one could pick any top star from their favorite sport and declare them the greatest of all time. I couldn't argue with some of the names mentioned. Babe Ruth, Micheal Jordon, Wayne Gretzky, Ali and Pele are all one-of-a-kind athletes/superstars. Babe Ruth might've liked to eat, drink and be merry, but despite himself, he still had an amazing career. I think every name that's been mentioned in this thread could be considered the greatest.
Fair call. It's almost impossible to come to a conclusion upon who is the greatest sportsperson of all time.

That said, whether or not I'm a cricket fan, or whether or not I even like Bradman as a cricketer or as a human being, the fact is that Bradman is statistically in a league of his own and that no one has come close to emulating what he has acheived in his sport.

That said again, can the greatness of a sportsperson be measured only by statistics? And surely there are some sportspeople out there, perhaps Ali and Pele to an extent, whose greatness or legendary status has become so cliched, that their name alone hinders or prejudices any accurate judgement upon who really is the greatest of all time?
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Old 01-09-2007, 09:32 PM   #53
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As far as I'm concerned, anyone who denies that Bradman is simply in a league of his own as far as any sport goes, even cross-sport comparisons, is either:

1. someone who has no clue about cricket (i.e. is probably American), and/or
2. someone who is wrong.

How do you even begin to compare to Bradman? The man was in a league of his own. He makes the achievements of Pele, Ali, and Michael Jordan in their respective sports look thoroughly ordinary. Now, I'm sure cases based on subjective values could be made for other sportspeople, but if we're going by straight achievement, you simply can't find anyone with statistics that are even in Bradman's ballpark.

I just have to wonder if we will ever see a talent like Bradman in any sport again.

(Though Pinetree could take Bradman too. )
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Ian McCulloch the U2 fan:
"Who buys U2 records anyway? It's just music for plumbers and bricklayers. Bono, what a slob. You'd think with all that climbing about he does, he'd look real fit and that. But he's real fat, y'know. Reminds me of a soddin' mountain goat."
"And as for Bono, he needs a colostomy bag for his mouth."

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Old 01-10-2007, 12:37 PM   #54
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Originally posted by Axver

The man was in a league of his own. He makes the achievements of Pele, Ali, and Michael Jordan in their respective sports look thoroughly ordinary.
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Old 01-10-2007, 12:58 PM   #55
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Originally posted by Axver
As far as I'm concerned, anyone who denies that Bradman is simply in a league of his own as far as any sport goes, even cross-sport comparisons, is either:

1. someone who has no clue about cricket (i.e. is probably American), and/or
2. someone who is wrong.

How do you even begin to compare to Bradman? The man was in a league of his own. He makes the achievements of Pele, Ali, and Michael Jordan in their respective sports look thoroughly ordinary. Now, I'm sure cases based on subjective values could be made for other sportspeople, but if we're going by straight achievement, you simply can't find anyone with statistics that are even in Bradman's ballpark.

I just have to wonder if we will ever see a talent like Bradman in any sport again.

(Though Pinetree could take Bradman too. )
wayne gretzky. 8 straight mvp's. his trade to LA changed the demographics of the sport. he holds or shares 61 different NHL records, including single season and career records for goals, assists and points. he has more career assists than any other player in the history of the sport has points (goals & assists combined).

you wanted sheer stats? you got 'em.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayne_Gretzky%27s_records
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Old 01-10-2007, 05:14 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by Axver
As far as I'm concerned, anyone who denies that Bradman is simply in a league of his own as far as any sport goes, even cross-sport comparisons, is either:

1. someone who has no clue about cricket (i.e. is probably American), and/or
2. someone who is wrong.

How do you even begin to compare to Bradman? The man was in a league of his own. He makes the achievements of Pele, Ali, and Michael Jordan in their respective sports look thoroughly ordinary. Now, I'm sure cases based on subjective values could be made for other sportspeople, but if we're going by straight achievement, you simply can't find anyone with statistics that are even in Bradman's ballpark.

I just have to wonder if we will ever see a talent like Bradman in any sport again.

(Though Pinetree could take Bradman too. )
I'm probably one of the ignorant Americans who doesn't know much about cricket, and I probably know less about hockey.

But I do know about hockey because of Gretzsky.

Same with people knowing basketball because of Jordan, soccer because of Pele, etc, etc.

Basketball is more of a global sport than American nowadays.

Soccer is global, as is Hockey.

Cricket, in my opinion, is global but not as huge of a market sport as the other 3.

It doesn't help that I have no idea who Bradman is.
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Old 01-11-2007, 12:24 AM   #57
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You're not alone. I don't know shit about cricket.
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Old 01-11-2007, 04:30 AM   #58
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Originally posted by LemonMacPhisto


Basketball is more of a global sport than American nowadays.

Soccer is global, as is Hockey.

Cricket, in my opinion, is global but not as huge of a market sport as the other 3.

Basketball might be played globally, but the only league in the world people give a toss about is the NBA.

Hockey is global, but no one (unfortunately, because I like hockey) gives a rats about it.

Cricket is certainly not as huge a commercial sport, but a market of 1.1 billions is a market not to be sneezed at.
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Old 01-11-2007, 04:46 AM   #59
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Holy crap, are we talking about Ice Hockey???

That's not even real hockey!

Nothing against Wayne Gretzky (his stats seem impressive) or ice hockey as a sport, but surely in our quest to find the greatest sportsperson of all time we have to consider some of the elite superstars of other sports such as tchoukball, underwater rugby and sitting volleyball for example.

Eddie Keher was a superstar in the Gaelic game of Hurling...maybe he is the greatest sportsperson of all time?


Can anyone provide a link to a comparions of Gretzky's stats with other elite Ice Hockey players in history? I wanna see how his stats compare.
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Old 01-11-2007, 06:52 AM   #60
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As far as I know Bradman was the dude who tried to catch the foul ball at Wrigley in the 2003 NLCS.

Its tough to be the world's greatest sportsmen of all time when 98.6% of the world has no clue who you are.


Again, Muhammed Ali, end of discussion.

The most recognizable sports figure worldwide in history.
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