Fancy Gap, Virginia Superthread

[bono_man2002]

Nicely put Bonnie!

 

[cobl04]

On another note, I want to properly learn a language, not just fuck around looking at a whole bunch of them, and as far as what I hope of my future goes, either French or Spanish would potentially be equally useful. But I only want to concentrate on one of them. Whaddayou guys think? I already know more Spanish (did it in school, can actually pronounce some of the worlds properly) but French definitely makes it sound like you know your shit, and it will make the ladies and gentlemen swoon. Just say one of them. Ah, go on.

You could probably learn both. There are heaps of similarities between those two and Italian.

I guess it all depends on whether you'd rather go to Eastern Canada or Central America.

 

[cobl04]

And holy SHIT did I see some great comedy tonight. First up was Frank Woodley, he's doing a show with some other bloke called Inside, it's like a performance piece about prison, they put on eastern European accents, it was really not very good, which is a great shame because Frank is extremely funny.

Then I hung around in the city until Setlist, cos Wil Anderson was doing it. And fuck me, Ax and Charlotte and Danny too you have to see this show. It's established comedians being given words or phrases on a screen then they have to do improv. Wil absolutely fucking smashed it, I had that uncontrollable body-shaking laughter going on. Felicity Ward was unbelievably funny as well. Then the last dude came on, and he was pretty funny, then he called Wil back on stage, and just got absolutely slaughtered. He ended up making heaps of unfunny (and slightly racist/homophobic) jokes and Wil just gave him nothing, and then whenever he took the mic he just had the crowd in raptures. Awesome awesome awesome.

 

[bono_212]

if you are ever planning on coming here, Bonnie, Spanish would be most useful, but as Cobbler said, those are two of the easier languages to learn both of.

I'm struggling through renewing my Japanese studies and it has been one of the most rewarding experiences of my life.

 

[The Sad Punk]

You could probably learn both. There are heaps of similarities between those two and Italian.

I guess it all depends on whether you'd rather go to Eastern Canada or Central America.

Oh yeah, absolutely - and I do hope to be fluent in both languages at some point. I just really want to concentrate on one and then get the bonuses from learning that one with the other Romance languages after.

 

[Axver]

I've always wanted to learn French. Hell, I've always wanted to learn any language.

I guess Maori would be my priority for obvious professional reasons. But I think if I could learn absolutely any language it would be Russian.

 

[cobl04]

Just got back from Greg Fleet's show. Wow. It's all about his heroin addiction, it's absolutely amazing.

 

[djerdap]

I took courses for both languages and Spanish is definitely the easier one in my mind - pronunciation can especially be a nightmare in French.

I would also concentrate on one language of the two, since they are relatively similar and can bring a lot of unnecessary confusion in both grammar and vocabulary. I remember when I took a Russian course it pissed me off how I constantly mixed it up with my own native tongue. Similarity isn't necessarily an advantage. However, once you get a handle on one of them, the other one should be easier to grasp in the future.

I guess it all depends on whether you'd rather go to Eastern Canada or Central America.

Don't know why you've mentioned these two regions specifically but the language in Canada is Québécois French, which does differ in some ways significantly from the "normal" French language.

 

[bono_212]

I don't know why Central America is apparently the only place that speaks Spanish

 

[djerdap]

I do have to admit I'm still confused by that remark.

 

[Axver]

I'm told you only need to learn Arabic if you plan on visiting Tunisia.

 

[cobl04]

Don't know why you've mentioned these two regions specifically but the language in Canada is Québécois French, which does differ in some ways significantly from the "normal" French language.

Well Bonnie wants to go to America at some point. I get you're all having fun with my comment, which is cool, as long as you don't think I'm an actual idiot.

 

[Axver]

Pretty sure we think much more fondly of you than some of the B&C crowd!

 

[cobl04]

Oh I know you do, I was addressing the members of the B&C crowd

I sometimes think about meeting in real life. I'd love to meet the B&C crew all at once to see what they'd think of me. I think they'd all "get it" immediately. Obviously I'd rock up in my Braves cap and onesie, so as to be recognised.

 

[Axver]

Next time we catch up in Brunswick, I expect you to wear the onesie.

 

[cobl04]

I've still got the wristband on.

 

[The Sad Punk]

I took courses for both languages and Spanish is definitely the easier one in my mind - pronunciation can especially be a nightmare in French.

I would also concentrate on one language of the two, since they are relatively similar and can bring a lot of unnecessary confusion in both grammar and vocabulary. I remember when I took a Russian course it pissed me off how I constantly mixed it up with my own native tongue. Similarity isn't necessarily an advantage. However, once you get a handle on one of them, the other one should be easier to grasp in the future.


Don't know why you've mentioned these two regions specifically but the language in Canada is Québécois French, which does differ in some ways significantly from the "normal" French language.

Cheers. I'm leaning towards Spanish right now, for the reasons you've mentioned.

As for Cobbler's statement, probably came off as a little misguided without information, but he knows that I really want to go to Quebec and Mexico, so it's not completely silly. Having said that, France and Spain are also the two European countries that I'd most like to visit in relation to my art practice (just wanna set up camp in the Prado) so I'm kind of conscious of seeing the differences between the dialects. I figure as long as I can get by, it's still better than English.

 

[djerdap]

Yeah, I thought as much that Cobbler knew something I didn't. One other point would be that people in Québéc do speak English so you may have trouble advancing your French because of that simple fact. Mexico will certainly be more flexible in this department. Mexican Spanish is more similar to the "usual" form of Spanish that I learned in college than Québécois French is to regular French, so that's another point to consider. But it's all relative in the end and each experience is different, so you never know.

In any case, I don't know if you're a movie fan, but it's also a good thing to watch a lot of Spanish-language films. As you get more confident with the language, Spanish-language films with Spanish subtitles is also a very good approach for some. Basically I learned my English about 80% through film. There are of course tons of great films in both Spanish and French. The way I had a grasp of some Spanish vocabulary even before I did some courses is that, when I was a kid, there were regularly Latin American soap operas on TV called "telenovelas", which featured godawful acting, script and direction. Absolutely perfect for learning a language because they all speak loudly, clearly and slowly, but the content is so excruciatingly bad I deem it now unwatchable since I'm not 8 years old anymore.

¡Buena suerte!

 

[The Sad Punk]

That's kind of what I figured, re Quebec - seems like most, or at least a large percentage of people speak English already, especially in Montreal. For a while I was also seriously considering going to Haiti to do some social work of some variety, but by this point I worry that without specific education, I would simply be another well-meaning, naive white student who does not understand the world and is simply in the way, building shitty houses and stealing jobs that belong to locals, so that dream has kind of died off for now. I really wanna go to Haiti one day, though - the place and people seem amazing and it is one of the very few countries of which I can say that its birth and history are inspirational, rather than horrifying and or semi-mythical. Anyway, I'm getting sidetracked. Basically I really want to travel, heh.

You won't find me in ZS too often, but I do watch quite a lot of movies, and I generally watch other-language films anyway so I was certainly planning on delving deeper into Spanish language cinema. My exposure to telenovelas is limited to parodies, but if you say they work and that they're also excruciatingly bad, you better believe I'm gonna watch them. I'm guessing that asking for recommendations is redundant?

Spanish it is. Welp, time to Pimsleur!

Merci gracias.

 

[djerdap]

You won't find me in ZS too often, but I do watch quite a lot of movies, and I generally watch other-language films anyway so I was certainly planning on delving deeper into Spanish language cinema. My exposure to telenovelas is limited to parodies, but if you say they work and that they're also excruciatingly bad, you better believe I'm gonna watch them. I'm guessing that asking for recommendations is redundant?

Telenovela recommendations? Well that's something you don't get asked every day, heh. They're all basically the same trash filmed over and over again. And I wouldn't torture myself with that dreck; there's plenty of Buñuel, Almodóvar, Amenábar, Luna, Ruiz, Saura, Erice, Cuarón, Del Toro, Iñárritu etc. to keep you entertained.

 

[Axver]

Forget Horrible Music Hour, it's time for Horrible Foreign Language TV Hour!

 

[cobl04]

Yeah, I thought as much that Cobbler knew something I didn't. One other point would be that people in Québéc do speak English so you may have trouble advancing your French because of that simple fact. Mexico will certainly be more flexible in this department. Mexican Spanish is more similar to the "usual" form of Spanish that I learned in college than Québécois French is to regular French, so that's another point to consider. But it's all relative in the end and each experience is different, so you never know.

In any case, I don't know if you're a movie fan, but it's also a good thing to watch a lot of Spanish-language films. As you get more confident with the language, Spanish-language films with Spanish subtitles is also a very good approach for some. Basically I learned my English about 80% through film. There are of course tons of great films in both Spanish and French. The way I had a grasp of some Spanish vocabulary even before I did some courses is that, when I was a kid, there were regularly Latin American soap operas on TV called "telenovelas", which featured godawful acting, script and direction. Absolutely perfect for learning a language because they all speak loudly, clearly and slowly, but the content is so excruciatingly bad I deem it now unwatchable since I'm not 8 years old anymore.

¡Buena suerte!

I met a French-Canadian at the Donko festival, who lives and works in Quebec six months a year (as a chef for a millionaire artist, no less). He said that Quebecers are predominately French-speaking, and that it's nigh on impossible to get a job in the town if you don't speak French, and that if you don't try and speak French they'll look down on you. I've heard that from a couple of people. I've never been there though so I don't know.

I've really really really gotta get back into Italian. Loved it. And yeah watching foreign movies with foreign subtitles is a great idea.

 

[The Sad Punk]

The Donko Festival.

May it forever be known as such.

Now I'm baffled again. Spanish or French. Say a word, guys. I can only make decisions from other people because I'm basically like one of those spineless fishes that looks like a pokemon.

 

[djerdap]

I met a French-Canadian at the Donko festival, who lives and works in Quebec six months a year (as a chef for a millionaire artist, no less). He said that Quebecers are predominately French-speaking, and that it's nigh on impossible to get a job in the town if you don't speak French, and that if you don't try and speak French they'll look down on you. I've heard that from a couple of people. I've never been there though so I don't know.

As far as experiences go with people I've talked to - if you're a foreigner, people will talk English with you because of the presumption you have trouble with French. This is what I have experienced in other countries with a different language - I haven't been in Quebec - which can sometimes get annoying. However, if one does look for a job, one has to know French. If one is a student - especially if taking only English courses in Montreal for instance - there might be more trouble for him to improve on her on his French. Just as it can be a problem for many exchange students to improve on the local language if everybody can speak English, depending on the country. But again, it's all relative.

What I do presume is that it would be quicker to improve on one's Spanish when in Mexico, since the percentage of people who speak good English is lower than in Quebec. One simply has to use Spanish in order to get by. If we're talking employment - it goes without saying that one has to speak French or Spanish in these countries, with a few exceptions. Which can be problematic if you never had experience before in a said country - I myself couldn't learn a language by only taking courses and then going abroad to work on that language without any input in English. I've never been in a Spanish-speaking country yet, which is why my Spanish is still shit.

Now I'm baffled again. Spanish or French. Say a word, guys. I can only make decisions from other people because I'm basically like one of those spineless fishes that looks like a pokemon.

Both. I think Spanish is the easier language to learn (again, subjective) and this would be an excellent basis for French in the future. But I'd wait at least a year, where I would focus on my Spanish, before I would go and learn French seriously.

 

[cobl04]

Both. I think Spanish is the easier language to learn (again, subjective) and this would be an excellent basis for French in the future. But I'd wait at least a year, where I would focus on my Spanish, before I would go and learn French seriously.

I think this is sage advice. I feel like Italian's the easiest of the three, if only because it's so phonetic, there's no silent letters or anything. I'd go Italian-Spanish-French.

How do you pronounce "y" by the way? Is it the same way as Italian's "e`"? Or more of an "Eeee" sound. Will help me when I talk about Toro y Moi.

 

[djerdap]

Yeah, it's "e". There is a silent letter in Italian though, same as in Spanish ("h" at the beginning of a word). The only other silent letter that comes to mind in Spanish is "u" in que or words starting with "gue".

I'd rank Spanish and Italian somewhere the same, although Italian is very heterogenous as far as dialects are concerned - as bad as German, which is pretty fucking bad, while French would be in my opinion slightly more difficult as far as Romance languages are concerned. Portuguese is I think slightly more complicated than Spanish pronunciation-wise, although they share many similarities. Then you have Romanian, which is a whole different story altogether.

 

[cobl04]

Well that's very true. But it's much easier than words like "knife" or whatever.

 

[djerdap]

Although I'm not sure if I would call Spanish or Italian very phonetic (they are more phonetic than English but not more so than German I feel), but this is because the most phonetic language I know of - Croatian - is my own.

 

[cobl04]

Croatian would be easy, everything ends in "vic"

 

[djerdap]

Friggin' Cobbler. It's "vić", for one.

If you'd be talking in diminutives the whole time, a lot of words would end like that. Which actually seems like a perfect Monty Python sketch that never was.